Help With My 625

[Cuz]

What does it mean when the trigger sometimes gets hung up during the return motion when firing? If I fire very fast it seems to work all the time, but when I fire slower in double action mode sometimes the trigger doesn't always return all the way forward. It also feels very rough during the forward motion after firing.

also, I just ordered the Jerry Miculek "Trigger Job" DVD, but was wondering if the video is accurate for the newer model S&W Revolvers with the keylock in the sideplate?

Thanks,

Cuz.

[Waltermitty]

What does it mean when the trigger sometimes gets hung up during the return motion when firing? If I fire very fast it seems to work all the time, but when I fire slower in double action mode sometimes the trigger doesn't always return all the way forward. It also feels very rough during the forward motion after firing.

also, I just ordered the Jerry Miculek "Trigger Job" DVD, but was wondering if the video is accurate for the newer model S&W Revolvers with the keylock in the sideplate?

Thanks,

Cuz.

You'd have to get the side plate off and see what's happening in the mechanism. If you've lowered return spring force (by cutting coils or swapping springs) the hammer main spring pressure may be too high to allow a reset.

I did have the end of a cylinder lock spring break off one time and give return problems. That one was hard to figure out because it made the lock hard to reset.

I have the DVD. It does not address the keylock.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

What does it mean when the trigger sometimes gets hung up during the return motion when firing? If I fire very fast it seems to work all the time, but when I fire slower in double action mode sometimes the trigger doesn't always return all the way forward. It also feels very rough during the forward motion after firing.

also, I just ordered the Jerry Miculek "Trigger Job" DVD, but was wondering if the video is accurate for the newer model S&W Revolvers with the keylock in the sideplate?

Thanks,

Cuz.

Most likely when you had the action worked on, the rebound spring was cut and no stone work completed. Just guessing who did the work, but if it is the same that did our mutual friend from Manville, that was the problem with his also. It is an easy fix for the experienced, but will take time otherwise.

Are you shooting ICORE at S&W next week?????

Regards,

Edited January 2, 2006 by Round_Gun_Shooter

[AzShooter]

Duh, sounds like another fine "Gunsmith" that just changes springs.

Jerry's DVD does not address the lock but here is a hint. My hammer was binding on the spring that holds the lock system in. Remove the spring or stone the hammer, your choice. You will notice where it is hanging up after a number of dry fires.

Rebound springs should be replaced and not cut. Order a Black Majic Spring Kit from Vic Pickett and you will get about a 6 lb reliable trigger. Vic's work number is 4809850005. His e-mail address is Vpickett@neta.com.

[Carmoney]

Sluggish trigger rebound is usually caused by reducing the tension of the rebound spring without also reducing tension of the mainspring. For a competition gun, these spring tensions can be reduced quite a lot, but they must be lowered in balance with one another.

I must disagree with the statement that rebound springs should not be cut. I have had uniformly excellent results over many years and many S&W action jobs by cutting the rebound spring and bending the stock factory mainspring to the desired tension. (Like almost everything else in life, these spring adjustments can be done incorrectly.) I have never found a spring kit that gives me quite the feel I want in a competition wheelgun.

Mike

[Waltermitty]

Sluggish trigger rebound is usually caused by reducing the tension of the rebound spring without also reducing tension of the mainspring. For a competition gun, these spring tensions can be reduced quite a lot, but they must be lowered in balance with one another.

I must disagree with the statement that rebound springs should not be cut. I have had uniformly excellent results over many years and many S&W action jobs by cutting the rebound spring and bending the stock factory mainspring to the desired tension. (Like almost everything else in life, these spring adjustments can be done incorrectly.) I have never found a spring kit that gives me quite the feel I want in a competition wheelgun.

Mike

Brother Mike,

Can you share what you run your trigger pull to in pounds of force?

[D.carden]

I do the same as Carmoney. FTW.

I use stock springs that have been re-curved (main) or cut (rebound) to my desire.

Main spring/hammer weight is 1lb-14oz. The hammer is pulled back to the point of release with a digital scale. Also, it is disengaged/free from the trigger during measuring.

Rebound spring/trigger weight is 3lbs-4oz. It is measured with the hammer and main spring REMOVED. Trigger/hand/cylinder only during this mode. This delivers a "crisp" reset on the trigger with everything re-assembled.

Combined this produces a 5lb-14oz overall pull in my gun.

Results can vary depending on how good a polish/fitting job you do.

Dan......

[Cuz]

Most likely when you had the action worked on, the rebound spring was cut and no stone work completed. Just guessing who did the work, but if it is the same that did our mutual friend from Manville, that was the problem with his also. It is an easy fix for the experienced, but will take time otherwise.

Are you shooting ICORE at S&W next week?????

Regards,

Well, When I ordered the "Trigger Job" DVD I also ordered a Miculek spring kit which I thought would reduce the trigger pull, and also an EDM fibre optic front site. But when I read the installation instructions it says you also have to grind down the strain relief screw. I wonder if the spring kit is even necessary if I just shortened the screw. I think from many posts I've read here the mainspring and rebound spring work as a team and need to be "compatible" in some sort of way. I guess it's time to watch the video to see what kind of stone and files I need to order now. You are correct about the gunsmith. I will go and watch him install the front site for me since I can't do the drilling, but I think I'll watch the video and see if I can't do the stoning stuff my self.

ICORE at S&W? I don't have any idea what that is? I've never been to S&W, although Springfield is probably only a couple of hours from me. I'll send you an email for info.

-Cuz.

[TacticalReload]

Well, When I ordered the "Trigger Job" DVD I also ordered a Miculek spring kit which I thought would reduce the trigger pull, and also an EDM fibre optic front site. But when I read the installation instructions it says you also have to grind down the strain relief screw. I wonder if the spring kit is even necessary if I just shortened the screw. I think from many posts I've read here the mainspring and rebound spring work as a team and need to be "compatible" in some sort of way. I guess it's time to watch the video to see what kind of stone and files I need to order now. You are correct about the gunsmith. I will go and watch him install the front site for me since I can't do the drilling, but I think I'll watch the video and see if I can't do the stoning stuff my self.

Couple of things. First, there is very little to replacing a pinned front sight as long as you have a very small punch, very small drill bit, and a very steady hand.

Secondly, you can't lower the pull weight too much by simply shortening the strain screw. You need a bend in the mainspring because when you take too much tension off the spring, it's going mess with the angle and make it hard for it to bend (it'll actually try to squish it longitudinally instead) -- it's easier to visualize than explain. Jerry's mainspring has a bend in it... you can bend your factory spring if you want, but you kinda have to know what you're doing. Jerry's rebound slide spring (trigger return spring) is also lighter than factory and, according to him, is matched to the mainspring when set at about 7 lbs.

Third, there are definite differences between pre-lock, non-MIM guns and post-lock MIM guns that will affect what you see when you take them apart and try to stone some parts. The two main things that I notice are that (1) the cylinder stop and trigger mate up on a little raised ridge instead of the full length of the edge, and (2) the hand spring fits into the trigger a little differently and can be a real pain if you don't know how they fit.

Good luck

[Cuz]

Couple of things. First, there is very little to replacing a pinned front sight as long as you have a very small punch, very small drill bit, and a very steady hand.

Secondly, you can't lower the pull weight too much by simply shortening the strain screw. You need a bend in the mainspring because when you take too much tension off the spring, it's going mess with the angle and make it hard for it to bend (it'll actually try to squish it longitudinally instead) -- it's easier to visualize than explain. Jerry's mainspring has a bend in it... you can bend your factory spring if you want, but you kinda have to know what you're doing. Jerry's rebound slide spring (trigger return spring) is also lighter than factory and, according to him, is matched to the mainspring when set at about 7 lbs.

Third, there are definite differences between pre-lock, non-MIM guns and post-lock MIM guns that will affect what you see when you take them apart and try to stone some parts. The two main things that I notice are that (1) the cylinder stop and trigger mate up on a little raised ridge instead of the full length of the edge, and (2) the hand spring fits into the trigger a little differently and can be a real pain if you don't know how they fit.

Good luck

Thanks for the info. I'll keep this post handy when I actually get around to taking it apart. Luckily I have two similar revolvers so if I can't figure out how something goes I can use the other one as a reference. As for the front sight, I don't have the capability to drill out the EDM sight. I just don't have a steady hand for that. Thanks,

-Cuz.

[Carmoney]

Brother Mike,

Can you share what you run your trigger pull to in pounds of force?

Happy New Year Brother Walt! My 625 pulls at about 5.25 pounds, give or take.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

ICORE at S&W? I don't have any idea what that is? I've never been to S&W, although Springfield is probably only a couple of hours from me. I'll send you an email for info.

-Cuz.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30107

[MikeFoley]

OK, I just found this old thread while pondering N-frame trigger return. I must preface with saying that I always hated N-frames until last year when I got the 610. I love the 610, it has a factory 10 pound trigger, and it is smooth. It returns very fast, and I like a positive return. I cannot recall whether or not I put in a new trigger return spring when the gun was new or not, but I may have. I have had great success with a heavy trigger pull and do not wish to lighten the pull. The thing I hated about all N-frames up to this point was the sloppy, spongy, hanging trigger return, and all of them I ever fired or dry fired felt that way to me.

Today my model 28-2 from 1967 came in and I like the gun, but it has that horribly slow trigger return. I have heavy springs on hand, at least 15 pound Wolff which I have used before. Should I put this in the old 28? Will it make the return more positive? Thanks in advance for your advice.

(I do not want a lighter pull, or different mainspring, I only want to know about the trigger return)

[Waltermitty]

OK, I just found this old thread while pondering N-frame trigger return. I must preface with saying that I always hated N-frames until last year when I got the 610. I love the 610, it has a factory 10 pound trigger, and it is smooth. It returns very fast, and I like a positive return. I cannot recall whether or not I put in a new trigger return spring when the gun was new or not, but I may have. I have had great success with a heavy trigger pull and do not wish to lighten the pull. The thing I hated about all N-frames up to this point was the sloppy, spongy, hanging trigger return, and all of them I ever fired or dry fired felt that way to me.

Today my model 28-2 from 1967 came in and I like the gun, but it has that horribly slow trigger return. I have heavy springs on hand, at least 15 pound Wolff which I have used before. Should I put this in the old 28? Will it make the return more positive? Thanks in advance for your advice.

(I do not want a lighter pull, or different mainspring, I only want to know about the trigger return)

It might make enough difference to make you like it, but if it disturbs you with the factory springs it may make more sense to smooth it out first, because you will probably still feel the trigger and cylinder stop reset even with a heavier spring.

There are several factors that may be making things worse in your new gun. Factors that may not be improved with a bigger return spring. If you don't want to send it back S&W, I'm sure someone here could guide you to a competent Gunsmith to diagnose the problem.

Or you can sell that piece of crap to me for $200.00 and put the whole mess behind you.

Edited February 8, 2006 by Waltermitty

[Carmoney]

(I do not want a lighter pull, or different mainspring, I only want to know about the trigger return)

Fomeister, the two springs function together to control trigger rebound. Your mainspring tension is probably way higher than necessary--reduce the tension on the mainspring to a reasonable level and your trigger rebound will automatically get livelier and snappier, because it's not having to pull against the mainspring as much. I know it sounds weird, but take off the sideplate and look at it for awhile, and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Mike

[MikeFoley]

Thanks guys. I think after a little dry firing, that this gun just hadn't been used that much. I didn't expect a 39 year old gun to need breaking in. I may take a few thousandths off of the strain screw, but I really like a heavy pull. I know that sounds wrong, expecially considering all the 2 pound semi-auto triggers I have, but the wheelgun stays more still for me with the heavy pull.

[Cuz]

Thanks guys. I think after a little dry firing, that this gun just hadn't been used that much. I didn't expect a 39 year old gun to need breaking in. I may take a few thousandths off of the strain screw, but I really like a heavy pull. I know that sounds wrong, expecially considering all the 2 pound semi-auto triggers I have, but the wheelgun stays more still for me with the heavy pull.

My problem with the trigger return was solved when I replaced the return spring that had been shortened with the one that came with the Miculek spring kit. Once I did that everything worked fine.

-Cuz.

[Airedale]

Fomeister,

Take a look at the insides before you change anything. My 25-2 was full of lube turned to gunk and really had a heavy pull.

A thorough cleaning made a world of difference.

Dave

[MikeFoley]

I installed a 15 pound spring and it locked up even worse. I put the factory back in, polished the trigger return and the side of the hammer wheel a bit, bent the mainspring a hair, and took a few thousandths off the strain screw. The gun is much faster now, but may still need some tweaking.

[MikeFoley]

After about 100 rounds of live fire, half std. vel. .38 and half +p .38, the gun is smooth and return is much more positive, I think it can only get better.