Ideal barrel length? And other questions about moon clips

[Couch-Commando]

I've had a lot of fun shooting my 44 magnum hunting gun in ICORE classic this year. I've learned a lot about both shooting and maintaining revolvers, and the tinkering is half the fun! I am now certain that I want to continue shooting revolver in ICORE. However, I did originally buy this gun for hunting, and my hunting load hits a foot high at 50 yards when zeroed at 25 for my powder puff load, so I definitely want a new gun if for no other reason than I don't want to have to rezero it every time I switch ammo. My wife informed me that she ordered me a batch of the new reporduction SL variant speed loaders for Christmas, and in my view, the speed loaders were my only main equipment hindrance this year, so I'm planning on sticking with 44, at least for next year.

 

I like the heft of the N frames, and also enjoy the frequent Dirty Harry jokes. I had originally intended to end up with both the 8" I got for long range hunting, and to get a 4" for woods carry. For this reason, I'm strongly considering getting a 4" model 29 for the short term for competition use. I shot Dave's 4" model 29 in my first match, and it was quite handy, and I had no issues making my hits. My current 8" seems slower on transitions, but highly accurate with a good "swing through" between targets. I assume a 6" would feel somewhere in the middle. I see a mix of 4" and 5" model 627s, and a lot of 929s with the 6" barrel, so it is obvious there are different opinions on barrel length. I'm curious what makes folks decide on 4" vs 6" barrels.

 

While part of me wants to get a 6" model 29 now, a 6" model 25 in 45 ACP next and shoot in both classic and L6, part of me thinks it would be fun to moon clip a 44 and just have one gun for two divisions. I even have a spare 29-3 cylinder if I didn't want to butcher an old gun. Anyway, I've heard that moon clips for 44s and 38s are more fragile than for 45 ACP and 9mm. I'm wondering how much this should dissuade me from considering moon clipping a 44.

 

Finally, if I did moon clip a 44 magnum, what moonclip hangers would work best? I see them available for the 45 ACP and the 9mm. I'm guessing a 45 ACP version would work, but is that correct?

[MWP]

Yes you want the 45 moon holders for 44 mag moons too. 
 

Don’t forget there’s currently a rule in the icore rule book that says you can’t shoot the same gun twice in one match in 2 divisions. I’ve never heard of that being enforced, but I think there’s conversation coming soon about that topic. 
 

Barrel length is subjective. Everyone has a different opinion. You’ll find the super squad at uspsa nationals with 5-6.5” barrels and iron sights. Same guns for icore limited. You’ll find successful open icore guns from 4-8.5”. 

Personally I think a 6-6.5” barrel is ideal for iron sighted guns. The visual relationship of sights, if sized properly, has the best appearance in that length. 
 

Guns with dots- it’s 100% personal preference. People “feel” that shorter guns move quicker. That’s completely a feeling, the timer says they’re the same. 
 

You’re not going to win or lose a match over an inch or two of barrel. Buy whichever gun you like best as that will make you more likely to bring it out to matches and shoot it more. 

Edited November 1, 2023 by MWP

[Toolguy]

The 45 moon clip holders would work fine for 44. A 5" barrel is a good compromise between 4 and 6, but some prefer those. The 4" is a bit handier, though it may be hard to tell a difference, a 6" has a longer sight radius for better aiming.

TKCustom can make 44 moon clips.

[practical_man]

@Couch-Commando

 

@Toolguy is the local guy to talk to about moon clips and cylinder relief for the big bores. He’s been shooting the 44s and 45s a long time in silhouette, pins, and such. 
 

I just tool the plunge into Limited 6. I listened to everyones advice and bought moon clips from TKCustom. They’re decent for 38 special mixed headstamp brass. No complaints. TK clips are head and shoulders above the Ranch Products clips and whatever S&W sends in the blue box. 
 

On barrel length. I’m a fan of the odd inch lengths. I really like a 3” K frame for convenient carry. My hunting revolver is a 5” 629. It’s more accurate than I can hold using 240 grain bullets. 
 

Long ago I owned a 5” 625. I like the way it balanced and transitioned, but I’m old and slow. That said, I shoot ICORE with 6” and 2” barrel .38 special revolvers. To sum up, I don’t think barrel length matters all that much for normal humans of average skill. Longer sight radius definitely helps with precision and making power factor with less powder. PF won’t be an issue if you stick with 44. 
 

My best advice if you’re buying another revolver is to get what the best shooters are using. Seems that most are using 627s or 629s. If I were buying a new revolver for ICORE I would get a 5 or 6 inch 627 because they’re available and I’m fairly set on 38 Special after decades of messing around with the caliber. A 629 would be good too, if you can find one. 
 

like others have said, get what you really want and shoot the heck out of it. If you rationalize any other decision you won’t be happy about it for long. 
 

Hope to see you at the next Mill Creek match. 

[Couch-Commando]

Part of me is really attracted to blued and wood vintage revolvers (and guns in general). The big reason I'm overthinking the barrel length question is that it will dictate what I do next since I'd like my guns for multiple divisions to use the same holster setup.

 

I think what I'm now leaning towards is a 6.5" model 29 for classic, to be followed by a 6.5" model 25 in 45 ACP for L6, to potentially be followed by a 6.5" 929 for limited. What I envision is a belt with a single holster, that I can quick swap my speed loader and moon clip hangers with Safariland QLS forks. So, assuming I'm shooting two guns at Mill Creek, I can pick two and hot swap the equipment on the line without causing any delays for other shooters.

 

Thinking to the distant future, if I wanted to swap between an 8 shot 9mm and a 6 shot 45, are there any moon clip hangers that can accommodate both 8 shot 9mm/38 and 45?

[pskys2]

ICORE Rules at times are "loose" shall we say?  6.10 says A revolver may only compete in a single Division that must be declared prior to the start of competition.  I interpreted that, at local matches, to be you can't sign up to shoot multiple divisions with the same gun at once, meaning you can't sign up in Open/Limited with the same Revolver and just shoot once.  Locally we've shot up to 2 Divisions with the same Revolver so we can double our primer usage!  And not slow down the squad.

 

As for moon clip holders, try to find (or make them) Kydex Holders like North Mountain made.

https://www.revolversupply.com/moon-clip-holders/  might still sell some and they allow you to use the same holder for all of the moon clips.  

As for moon clipping the .44's, I'd probably not do it again.  Finding RN bullets for the .44 for ICORE are a pain and the moon clips that I got were loose and easily damaged.

I've not used the magnetic holders, so you might need to find someone who does have them and find out.  I'll see if I can't contact a buddy who would know.

The longer the barrel the less the sight picture requires refinement.  There's a reason dot shooters like shorter barrels, less weight out front to stop on the next target and less movement if they have to go into a port.  With a Dot you're not hindered by a short barrel, with iron sights a longer barrel will have less bullet dispersion for the sight picture.  

I'd recommend skipping moon clipping a .44 and go with a 929, unless you can find a 6 1/2" M25 that may take a longer search.

If you load your own rounds you're welcome to shoot my 4" M29 with or without moon clips.

[Toolguy]

There are lots of moon clip holders that will do any 6 or 8 moonclips interchangably.

 

I make a holster mod for the Hogue Power Speed holster that works for any S&W revo from 4" to 8-3/8" and anything in between. It takes about 10 seconds to change from any one to any other one. Then you can buy whatever guns you want or can find a deal on, without having to worry about barrel length.

[practical_man]

@Couch-Commando

 

Dave offers some pretty good advice.  I wouldn’t dismiss it out of hand. 
 

I like blue steel and walnut too. It’s what I grew up with back in the days when all police carried a Model 19 in a leather holster. Time change. I still enjoy the older revolvers. For competition it’s hard to beat stainless guns that you can easily source repair parts. 
 

@Toolguy makes a very versatile and secure rig. I have one that I use with K, L,

and N frame revolvers interchangeably. It’s the only holster I have that will accommodate tube style optics or a Wichita rib (yeah, I’m showing my age).  Anyway, let me know if you want to try out the holster. I’ll happily loan it to you. 

[Joe4d]

I have owned a 5" pro series, 686 with the flat sides since it came out... Put alot of rounds down range, and really enjoy it... I wanted a 617 and all I could find was the 6" played with them in gun stores and they just nose dived on me,, The 4" feels much better..
When I got into ICORE I bought a 6" 929,,, hated it for same reason just felt like a giant weight was on the end of it. Plus I have zero use for a gin that wont shoot what I put in it.
Sold/traded it for a 4" flat sided 627. Has a dot on it..  My local ICORE match publishes stages ahead of time, so I can decide to shoot the 627 open or the 7 shot 686 limited.  I really like the 7 shot better. and to date I have only run into a single stage where the 7 was a disadvantage.  Id like to find a lighter barrel 6 shot 5" K and maybe shoot L 6, or classic.  If I can find a 325 thunder ranch I would buy in a heartbeat.

[Couch-Commando]

Thanks again for the help. Part of the impetus of this thread was finding a smattering of Smith and Wesson 29s with cosmetic flaws on gunbroker this week. I just won an auction for a 29-3 that allegedly came from a police evidence locker in Phoenix for $700 before tax/transfer. Based on the photos, the gun looks dirty, and the grips have a few gouges, but I suspect with a little maintenance it will be a good shooter. I think my new plan is to shoot this for classic next year with the new 29, and then at some point in the future get a 929 for limited. That way I can shoot classic and limited with the same holster. Once I test it and put it through it's paces I'll be contacting Warren to work his magic on it.

 

After seeing that revolver supply site, I think I can feasibly build a moon clip holder using the posts they sell, and if I configure everything with Safariland QLS forks, I can build a setup that will let me quick detach my speed loader holder and the hypothetical moon clip holster in seconds, making shooting two guns practical.

 

Now I can zero my current gun for heavy 44 magnum, and have another zeroed for powder puff loads for ICORE. Plus, I will hopefully be able to actually sit in a chair with it holstered, which proved to be a serious challenge this year with the 8 inch barrel.

[pskys2]

Congratulations, look forward to seeing it.

[practical_man]

@Couch-Commando

 

enjoy your new revolver. Hope to see it at the next match. 

[Couch-Commando]

Well, my evidence gun showed up. Overall way better than I expected. I suspect is was rarely shot. I've doubled the size of the turn line in a bit of dry fire and speed loader practice. The internals looks brand new. There is mild peening on the cylinder notches, and a bit of wiggle in lock up which completely went away when I test fit my second cylinder. I'm guessing someone flicked the cylinder open a few times. The only real curve ball here is that I am 99% sure that the front sight is integral to the barrel ramp and not pinned. I wasn't expecting that. How difficult/expensive would it be to grind it off and machine it for an interchangeable front sight? I hate the red ramp sight picture, and much prefer a skinny red fiber optic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Toolguy]

The front sight can be milled off and a new base installed that uses the Classic style clip on sights. Then you can put on any kind of sight you want. The 6 inch gun will serve you well.

[Couch-Commando]

Forgot to mention, my wife got me SL variant speed loaders for Christmas. They are awesome. I'm mildly disappointed I went with the 29, since I'm 99% sure these loaders will also work with 45 Auto Rim, which wouldn't really cost any more to reload than 44 Russian, and would let me shoot two divisions. They for sure work with 45 Colt.

 

I also finally found a source for round nose 44 bullets. The key was to add "cowboy action" to my search terms.

 

https://rimrockbullets.com/xcart/cb-44-240-gr-rn-per-500.html

[Squirrel45]

Check out Bear Creek Supply. He has many 44 options and specializes in older cartridges. 

[practical_man]

23 hours ago, Couch-Commando said:

Well, my evidence gun showed up. Overall way better than I expected. I suspect is was rarely shot. I've doubled the size of the turn line in a bit of dry fire and speed loader practice. The internals looks brand new. There is mild peening on the cylinder notches, and a bit of wiggle in lock up which completely went away when I test fit my second cylinder. I'm guessing someone flicked the cylinder open a few times. The only real curve ball here is that I am 99% sure that the front sight is integral to the barrel ramp and not pinned. I wasn't expecting that. How difficult/expensive would it be to grind it off and machine it for an interchangeable front sight? I hate the red ramp sight picture, and much prefer a skinny red fiber optic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It’s a small job to mill off the front sight and install a DX-style base. That would allow you to swap front sights easily. I had this done to my 586 some years ago. It was money well spent. @Toolguy did a fine job with the work.