Clays And 180 Gr

[paul788]

Sierra's new manual lists 4.6 gr. Clays under a 180 fmj. Has anyone tried this yet? I feel sure this makes major. I'm concerned since the Hodgdon book shows 3.5 gr as max. I know its been talked a lot, I've read most of the posts on this. New manual causing me to question the "wisdom".

Paul

[lneel]

I have 3 manuals and the Hodgdon website saying 3.5 as the MAX. I shoot IDPA minor at 3.1grains and this is a fast powder so no way is 4.6 a good idea. I am sure it will make MAJOR, once...major pain. Don't do it. Your wisdom is telling you right this time.

Lee

Edited December 29, 2005 by lneel

[Carlos]

Well, I am going to partly go back on something I wrote here in the past: I previously said I did not think straight, regular Clays was safe for Major in .40.

HOWEVER, I might give straight Clays a try for Major under these circumstances and ONLY under these circumstances:

1) Load .40 to 1.200" and NOT ONE FRACTION OF AN INCH SHORTER.

2) ONLY resize with a Lee U or Undersize or Small base resizing die; if you try using a Dillon resizer & loading with Clays, I believe you are just asking to blow up your gun

3) Load just over 165 & don't attempt to exceed old Major (175+).

I have changed my mind based on several friends who have been loading to new Major with straight, regular Clays for over a year. Again, if you want to load straight, regular Clays SHORT (like to fit in a Glock, CZ, HK, etc,) forgetaboutit!!! If you are too lazy or cheap to get that Lee U die, forgetaboutit! YMMV. Regards, D.C. Johnson

Edited December 29, 2005 by Carlos

[lim10gm]

Universal Clays or Clays?

[Dave Marques]

I have been using regular Clays for major in 40 since the PF went down to 165.

My load:

1.175"OAL

4.5 gr Clays

180 JHP

makes about 168-170 PF. IN MY GUN!!

IF you try it-use rifle primers there is a primer flow issue cause the pressure is pushing it. BACK off the load to 4.0 grns and work your way up using a chrono that you know is accurate. The pressure is pushing it-no doubt-but it does shoot soft if you like soft you will LOVE Clays.

THE BARREL MUST BE FULLY SUPPORTED - otherwise superface will happen with any substandard brass.

[Shadow]

I've basically used this load (4.6 of Clays with a MG or Zero JHP 180) for years, and even a little hotter when the power factor was 175, with no problems or pressure signs, BUT only loaded to 1.240 and with .400" freebore in the barrel.

I've never tried the Sierra bullets, and each gun varies, but don't be surprised if you occasionally blow a case head if you load short or if your barrel has little or no freebore. I've personally seen it happen many times on friends guns until they increased the freebore. On the plus side, the only thing its done is left a case (without the head) in the chamber which was easily removed with a knife or a screw driver (these were all Schueman ramped barrels) with no apparent damage to the gun. Some were slow learners and had this happen three or four times, thinking it was due to weak cases, again with no apparent damage (DON"T count on this being the case with your gun).

Dave is right though, Clays is the softest load in .40 if you can make it work in your gun.

Edited December 30, 2005 by Shadow

[lneel]

but don't be surprised if you occasionally blow a case head if you load short or if your barrel has little or no freebore.

C'mon guys, I've been reloading for 20+ years and don't think I would push it to quite to this edge. A .40 S&W can easily make a safe and soft major load. While I am just as much a gamer as anyone, I like all my fingers just where they are and as I shoot SV's I don't want to chunk a $2000+ gun in the trash trying to find the ultimate softest Charmin Ultra poof load. Spend your time practicing with one of the lower pressure safe loads and you will be better off in the long run. Obviously, this is just my opinion and YMMV. Good luck either way.

Lee

[eric nielsen]

Shadow pretty much said it: When you have case separation incidents while shooting 40cal, your issue is not with the quality or age of the cases. Your issue is with the pressure spike of the load you're shooting.

Clays pressure-spikes extremely steep & early compared to other commonly-used 40cal powders. Common side-effects of this are:

-- Very low noise [most of the powder is consumed before the bullet leaves the barrel]

-- Very low rocket effect/recoil push [same reason]

-- Very clean ejected cases [same reason]

-- Frequent case separation [violent expansion of case before bullet has moved very far]

-- Horrendously bad accuracy [maybe not in your gun but it's very common]

If you're comfortable with most of/all of these possibilities then go for it. Maybe the lower power factor takes the problem items away. Or not...

my 2c

[gm iprod]

Refer to some very nasty pictures of a dead S_I.

I think Clays is just alittle to fast for what you are trying.

I have tried and failed to get what I wanted, pressures just seemed to high cases did not last and primers looked like hell.

Try V V N320 loaded as long as the magazine or chamber will allow. Freeboring is a way to reduce what some consider to be excesive pressure. You can make major easily with a soft shooting load without leaning on the pressure curve. No real advantage so why bother??

I have a freind loading 210gr RN in 40 over V V N320, softest load in 40 I have ever shot.

[Flexmoney]

but don't be surprised if you occasionally blow a case head if you load short or if your barrel has little or no freebore.

C'mon guys, I've been reloading for 20+ years and don't think I would push it to quite to this edge. A .40 S&W can easily make a safe and soft major load. While I am just as much a gamer as anyone, I like all my fingers just where they are and as I shoot SV's I don't want to chunk a $2000+ gun in the trash trying to find the ultimate softest Charmin Ultra poof load. Spend your time practicing with one of the lower pressure safe loads and you will be better off in the long run. Obviously, this is just my opinion and YMMV. Good luck either way.

Lee

Not just your opinion.

+1

There are so many great options out there...why push it?

[Carlos]

Yeah, considering that guys are certainly going to ignore the three pieces of advice I posted above ( 1, 2 and 3) - I have to agree with you. Straight clays is a bad idea. People only believe what they want to believe. They will see us giving the go-ahead & ignore everything else I wrote. I take back what I wrote above. Clays will not be safely used for Major .40.

[Squishy]

I have been loading with straight Clays for over 12 years. Never had a problem. Load my 40, 45 and 9mm with clays. With the 40 I load 200 gr zero fmj and 210 rn lead, the softest recoil of any load I have worked up . I have tried lots of diffrent loads with diffrent powders and bullets. Ovl on the 40 is 1.25. Makes old major easy with rifle primers. I use pistol primers now. I use Dillon carbide dies . All brass goes thru my Case pro. Use your head and work all loads up caution no matter what your powder choice is. I have seen 2 s;i factory guns blown up with tigtgroup. Could be caused by bullet set back . Both guys were using plated bullets. Double charge? Whatever? No one knows. Just my 2 cents worth.

[tpcdvc]

Ok, I guess I'll throw my two cent in too.

When I was working loads up for my new STI I worked loads to 169-170PF in three powders. Clays, Titegroup and 320. After making PF I loaded up 100 rounds each and headed to the range. I shot 3 drills ten times each with each load, recorded the times and did a comparison. I dropped the best and worst time in each drill and then averaged the times. Titegroup actually won but only slightly over clays and then 320. But it was so close that I'm sure if I shot it again on another day a different powder might win. Or maybe my gun cycles better with Titegroup. I don't know. I thought clays felt a little better but the results did not show it.

If I had seen a definite advantage with Clays I would be loading Clays. I of course load out to 1.225 and saw no pressure signs.

I'm only a B shooter and I would guess maybe if I were a Master or GM maybe I could really tell a bigger difference????

Edited January 4, 2006 by tpcdvc