clarence-adams Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 I thought I was target focused when shooting irons because my target was clear and my irons were fuzzy. Now that I'm dipping into red dots it's a little harder to tell if I'm target focused since the dot is never fuzzy. I've heard that occluding your red dot is the best way to train yourself to be target focused with a red dot. My problem is I can't make myself use binocular vision without basically unfocusing my eyes much less focus on the target. I have a wider field of view due to both eyes being open but I don't see the occluded dot overlayed over the target. I'm either using my right eye, or my left eye, but never both. I have a slightly lazy left eye and when I first started shooting I had to wink it while I drew the gun so that I was using my right eye when shooting otherwise it was a 50/50 shot on whether I was left eye or right eye dominant so maybe that has something to do with it? Has anyone else ran into this issue? Am I still target focused even though I'm looking right through the glass and not focusing on the dot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muricanwerewolf Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 If the target is in focus you are target focused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarence-adams Posted October 11, 2023 Author Share Posted October 11, 2023 That's kind of what I figured. Just weird to hear about everyone occluding their red dot. Maybe I'm just overthinking it and occluding just doesn't work with my eyes. I'll mess around with occluding the dot some more and if I find out I'm doing something stupid I'll update this thread in case someone else runs into the same "problem". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muricanwerewolf Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 Many people swear by the occluded dot but as you've said maybe your personal situation doesn't lend itself to the practice. IMO it seems a bit woo-woo to me but I don't have any trouble staying target focused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinchedNerve Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 (edited) Occlud your dot, aim at a target. If you only see the dot, you are dot focused. If you see the dot and the target, you are target focused. Edited October 17, 2023 by PinchedNerve spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RennBaer Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 On 10/10/2023 at 9:04 PM, clarence-adams said: Am I still target focused even though I'm looking right through the glass and not focusing on the dot? This is exactly what you're supposed to be doing. If you're focusing on the dot, then you can't be focused on the target. Think of using the dot like using a mouse cursor. You don't have a hard focus on the mouse cursor as you're using a computer. You focus on what you want to click on and use your "soft" vision to move the cursor over it. Try using a computer by actually having a hard focus on the mouse cursor. It's difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstone45 Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 My understanding is that even when you are target focused, the dot should never be fuzzy or blurry anyway. If it it, your vision might need correcting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RennBaer Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Blackstone45 said: My understanding is that even when you are target focused, the dot should never be fuzzy or blurry anyway. If it it, your vision might need correcting. Even though your eyes are superimposing the dot onto the target when you're target focused the dot will still be out of focus because your eyes are only able to hard focus on a single plane at a time. The dot is supposed to work similar to a HUD where the dot is projected in the same plane as your environment, but it doesn't work perfectly all the time. I think that if you're able to discern whether or not the dot is blurry while you're shooting, you're probably focusing too hard on the dot. In many shooting situations the dot is nothing more than a flash or a streak of color in the window that you're using to aim. The only time that the dot appears as a nice round dot is when you're shooting at a slow pace. In my case, even with corrective lenses, the dot is never not blurry or fuzzy due to my astigmatism. It's actually not even completely round. However, it doesn't make a difference in accuracy because I'm never focusing on the dot hard enough while shooting to notice. Edited October 24, 2023 by RennBaer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgh Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 30 minutes ago, RennBaer said: In my case, even with corrective lenses, the dot is never not blurry or fuzzy due to my astigmatism. It's actually not even completely round. However, it doesn't make a difference in accuracy because I'm never focusing on the dot hard enough while shooting to notice. Ditto on this. Unless I'm using a circle-dot, and I never do, the fact that the dot isn't perfect usually doesn't matter. Unless it's a precision-type shot, there are other things going on that are more important that an imperfect dot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HesedTech Posted October 25, 2023 Share Posted October 25, 2023 On 10/10/2023 at 7:04 PM, clarence-adams said: I thought I was target focused when shooting irons because my target was clear and my irons were fuzzy. Now that I'm dipping into red dots it's a little harder to tell if I'm target focused since the dot is never fuzzy. The point of target focus is to NOT FOLLOW the dot to the next spot you want to hit, rather to look and then put the dot with the appropriate amount of precision on the spot. Irons really are similar, look at the spot first and then align the front and rear with the appropriate amount accuracy. An iron sight shooter who follows the front sight everywhere during the run will not be as quick or precise, just like the dot. Use the occlude to help get used to looking and then driving the gun to the desired location. I would also suggest dimming the dot to the lowest level for you need to see it. A bright blob dot draws attention away from the spot desired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobjd Posted October 25, 2023 Share Posted October 25, 2023 Thanks for the info. I am also transitioning to dot optics and it is getting easier with practice. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarence-adams Posted October 30, 2023 Author Share Posted October 30, 2023 There is some great info here, from what I can glean from everyone's responses it sounds like I AM still target focused since I'm focusing on the target through the lens and I'm not following the dot during transitions. When the dot is occluded I can overlay the dot over the target on demand now and use "binocular vision" but it still takes a lot of effort on my part and my eyes get tired quickly. Instead of target focused it feels like my vision is totally unfocused just to get it to work. The next time I can make it to the range I might experiment with the dot occluded anyways just to see if I can use it successfully. Who knows, maybe I'll have faster transitions even though it "feels" worse in dryfire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilk73 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 2 hours ago, clarence-adams said: There is some great info here, from what I can glean from everyone's responses it sounds like I AM still target focused since I'm focusing on the target through the lens and I'm not following the dot during transitions. When the dot is occluded I can overlay the dot over the target on demand now and use "binocular vision" but it still takes a lot of effort on my part and my eyes get tired quickly. Instead of target focused it feels like my vision is totally unfocused just to get it to work. The next time I can make it to the range I might experiment with the dot occluded anyways just to see if I can use it successfully. Who knows, maybe I'll have faster transitions even though it "feels" worse in dryfire. For people that would rather not occlude the dot get a couple of targets, set them up in dry practice and mark them within a 1” black circle. Practice transitioning from one black circle to the next. This is actually how I practice focusing on small spots on the target but it does work to help focus on the target and not the dot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scroadkill Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 After 6 years of matches with irons, 10ish matches of dot and now back to irons i seem to be able to track the front sight much better now than before working with a dot.. I think the dot taught me to stay target focused while softly tracking the sights / dot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgh Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 On 10/30/2023 at 5:20 AM, scroadkill said: i seem to be able to track the front sight much better now than before working with a dot.. If nothing else, the dot is a great training tool. I still do dry fire both with irons and dots. Without a doubt, using a dot has improved my presentation with irons. (Although it might just be do to the volume of dry fire and not the sighting system.) Trigger control can also be improved with a dot. The dot doesn't lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstone45 Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 On 10/30/2023 at 10:20 AM, scroadkill said: After 6 years of matches with irons, 10ish matches of dot and now back to irons i seem to be able to track the front sight much better now than before working with a dot.. I think the dot taught me to stay target focused while softly tracking the sights / dot. I've been a long-time production shooter, have switched to optics for a few months and hoping this type of cross-training will help me pick spots on targets faster and just generally improve my vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarence-adams Posted November 1, 2023 Author Share Posted November 1, 2023 13 hours ago, lgh said: Trigger control can also be improved with a dot. The dot doesn't lie. I've honestly found this to be the biggest improvement for me while cross training with a dot and irons. Because of the unforgiving dot, I actually know what a good trigger press feels like now whereas with irons even sloppy trigger presses looked good enough to me to hit the target, even though the same trigger press with a dot likely would have been enough to pull the dot off target. When I switch back to irons I can now feel whether or not I did a clean trigger press even though I'm not getting as much feedback as when I use a dot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarence-adams Posted November 12, 2023 Author Share Posted November 12, 2023 I finally had a breakthrough with the occluded dot! Just because you're shooting with both eyes open it doesn't mean you're using both eyes. Even with both eyes open I was basically only using my right eye and focusing hardcore through it while ignored my left. Now that I'm consciously using both eyes equally when aiming, it's like I can see right through the tape occluding my dot. I found this out when I was watching TV one day. I noticed my vision was relaxed and I was using both my eyes equally on the TV, so I outstretched my arm and put my thumb out like I was giving the TV a thumbs up and I had a perfect shadow of my thumb overlayed on the spot I was looking at on the TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHicks Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 I've shot several matches now in LO with an optic. In dry fire practice at home with an occluded dot I can see the target with the dot on it a lot better. Almost everytime. But at the match I'm having a bit more trouble. I'm not shooting occluded at the match. I really need to get out and practice some live fire from draws to transitions to get some confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgh Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 BE says ... 1. Put your attention on the target. All your attention. Repeat. All your attention. In so doing, point your nose at it since that is your sight line 2. Align your sights with the target. That means align your sights with your nose-to-target sight line. Drive the gun down your sight line. Don't swing it over (fishing or "Zebco") or under (bowling) and have to move it another step to get it on your sight line. Drive it down your sight line between nose and target. Not that hard really. 3. Keep it all aligned through your trigger pull. If you didn't hit the target, you screwed up one of the three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maur Posted November 23, 2023 Share Posted November 23, 2023 If your target is clear and irons were fuzzy when you were shooting irons, then im sure youre target focusing correctly. Pay attention to the target when youre getting a sight picture with the dot. If the target is clear and not at all fuzzy, youre good. You dont want the dot to be fuzzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinchedNerve Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) On 10/15/2023 at 3:02 PM, PinchedNerve said: Occlud your dot, aim at a target. If you only see the dot, you are dot focused. If you see the dot and the target, you are target focused. Bean Stoeger on the topic. You are not target focused What is that tape on your optic Nils Jonasson on the topic. Should You Occlude Your Dot ? - Pro vs Con Edited January 12 by PinchedNerve Add links Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan1984 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 One thing I like to do is have a friend write a 3/5 letter word on the target. “Cat” “zebra” “chair” etc. 1 inch block letters. Shot from 10-20 yards. Once you can read the word, you can shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinchedNerve Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 Mason Lane shoots and wins "Production Optics" in the 2024 Caribbean Open, with an Occluded Dot. Came in 3rd over all. Production optics scores (may need a Practiscore account) Over All scores. Mason Lane full match vid - Mason Lane match break down vid - Day 1. - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinchedNerve Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Mason Lane match break down vid - Day 2. - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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