SCSA RFPO - Harder than it looks

[Hoops]

This summer, after focusing on RFRO and PCCO to maintain my M class, I decided to start shooting RFPO.  Several of my fellow shooters (one a GM USPSA) did the same.

 

Before my series of back surgeries (I’m actually sidelined now with another procedure…my golden retired years) I ran an STI Steelmaster in open division and did well.  So RFPO seemed an easy alternative due to restrictions I have drawing and shooting a heavy pistol.

 

All of us are finding that RFPO is challenging when up against Peak Times.  
 

I’m running a VQ Black Mamba with Sig Romeo 3XL.  I recently started to us ELY Contact 42gr and I’m liking it.  I was running SK Green Pistol Match (good too).

 

I’m curious, what are your thoughts and approach to RFPO?

 

 

[Flatland Shooter]

After retiring from USPSA matches, I decided to finally give Steel Challenge a try.  Going from PCCO Master to RFRO B was tougher than expected but with time became possible.

 

Decided to try RFPO late last year with an older MK 2 with a C-More slide ride.  I enjoyed it but the gun was a little too heavy to do well.  Moved up to a Mamba X with newly installed Holosun Competition.  Gun runs good but I need to get a lot more practice.  After first match I made C class but have my sights a bit higher.

 

Its fair to say Steel Challenge is a bit tougher than USPSA but in my case that may be a sign of age rather than a lack of skill.

[Squirrel45]

After making GM in RFPO last year and focusing on rifles this year due to medical reasons. I can tell you for me shooting rifle for a year made my pistol skills drop off a bit. I would say if you really want to do well with rfpo I would stick with it and not jump around. Or shoot rfpo w Rfpi,  this is probably something I will pursue a bit next year. Shooting rf pistol is fun but yes I will agree a bit more difficult the long guns.

 

Plus 5 to go is being lowered in the new year so the overall time will drop by I think .25.

[Hoops]

@Flatland Shooter

@Squirrel45

 

Thanks for input.  At 72, irons are out unfortunately.

 

when I’m back shooting I’m planning to practice more and shoot more matches.  Will be interesting to see how my scores go…..also given realistic weight to age, etc.

 

I believe my gun, dot and ammo is a good set up.  Runs 100%.

 

@Flatland Shooter re: USPSA.  I found out quick and the hard way that scoring steel is simple….only Alpha Mikes and Mikes in SC are a match buster for sure.  That speed thing controlled over 5 strings is the game.  

 

Thanks

[KelsonAK]

The equipment isn't an issue....  It just needs to work.  Light, heavy, standard, minimags, whatever... I haven't seen a huge difference in times based on the actual gun I'm shooting, or the ammo as long as it goes bang.

RFPO requires that you really be solid in the pistol fundamentals to the extreme.  Grip, trigger control, etc - all need to be subconscious.  And pretty much perfect.  I suspect it is the hardest division to get a GM out of...  but just barely.

I will likely spend most of my winter just working on those fundamentals.  Again.  Still.  Seems silly, but for a fast game I seem to spend a lot of time working on accuracy....

Second piece for me is vision.  This is where repetition and visualization can really help.  Because we are dealing with big transitions we have to work the limitations of human vision.  The whole 'see what you need to see' is incomplete here - it's not just see what you need to see but see HOW you need to see.  Sometimes rapid eye movement, sometimes pursuit eye movement, sometimes wide view, sometimes narrower.  

Also - the little tips 'n tricks add up.  Foot placement, order of engagement, and even your height all start to whittle .05 off things and eventually that matters.

Lastly - I just became a 'Sr' - and core strength and flexibility matter.  Do some yoga!  

 

 

[Hoops]

@KelsonAK appreciate the tips.  You are correct, in this game every repeatable gain adds up fast.  
 

I had to laugh at the yoga comment.  I’m currently in the lobby of my pain management doc.  12 days ago I had a spinal stimulator installed due to disc fusion and rod/screws 14 months ago.  No yoga for a while

[Reinholt]

I got back into competitive shooting after we got the kids out of college.  It all started well, brought out my Bianchi cup revolver and an older S&W 41 irons for the first few matches.  Was astonished that only one CO gun beat my revolver times that day and the RFPI time was top 4.  Took another year break to due to cancer but back in full.  That S&W is now optics and still doing well.  I would do the VQ mamba if I was to start out today but the 41 runs ammo like a sowing machine.  

[blackss06]

RFPO is about having a reliable gun that you can control. For me, I like mine heavier. I run a MK3 22/45 lite with VQ lower and brass grips to add weight. If I had a bunch of free money I’d be running a Scorpion X, probably still with brass grips.

 

As long as you have any reliable gun, it’s probably not going to be equipment holding you back, the equipment is all personal preference and refinement.

 

The rest of it is balancing your speed/aggression and accuracy till you find where you connect repeatedly, then pushing it constantly till you can connect faster and faster. 

 

I’m just a normal GM, can run 70-73 sec matches reliably. Definitely not one of the super GMs running in the 60s and below, maybe those guys have some other secrets. 

[Renno]

Hey Hoops, I wrote this SCSA guide a while back that I think may help you out https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yf3uV8sK0d5EXKoqDHWNpb-bEESYwYE9aJQCeOi2XKw/edit?usp=drivesdk

 

What blackss06 says about balancing speed/aggression is absolutely right and that's the best strategy for SCSA.

 

I think the most important difference between pistol and rifle is that rifle has a third point of contact (the stock), which keeps it in line with your body. When mastering rimfire pistol, it's huge if you can keep the pistol aligned in your hands for both irons and optics, proportional to your body. Imagine you are looking at yourself shooting from a top down view and think of your body like a capitol letter T. Your shoulders are the top of the T, and the stem is the direction of the barrel. See the image in the link below.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1G1IBLCm_zuHEkOUhQY47incrV-0nwYVJ/view?usp=drivesdk

 

When you rotate your body to swing toward your next target, you should keep the T formation so that the barrel of the pistol is always facing perpendicular with your shoulders. This makes the gun feel more predictable in a swing if you can keep this aligned, and feel similar to a rifle with practice

Edited October 10, 2023 by Renno

[Hoops]

@blackss06 I assume you like the brass grips to add weight to rear of the gun?  I still have my MKIII with 5” bill barrel.  Back when I was shooting outlaw matches.  A friend of mine worked the trigger down to 1-3/4 lb with short reset.  It was fun running plate racks.  It’s just too heavy for me now at age 72 with lower back issues.  I recently bought a 6” Mamba upper.  I’ve shot one match with it and picked up time on 3 stages I think.  I ran it without a comp.

 

@Renno I read your paper.  Good read with solid tips.  You are correct, the 3 point contact with the carbine is the main difference.  I run a 10/22 platform Wiland chassis.  Total weight around 3lbs-15oz.  I can shoot it with less stress on lower back.

 

I run HV ammo in my carbines.  I am running  SV ammo in pistol.   The “felt” recoil feels better to me with SV in pistol.  SK was my previous choice of ammo.  I recently bought some Ely Contact 42 gr.  Runs 100%.  The 42gr bullet seems to shoot flatter….my perception.  
 

With my Mamba 4.5” upper I use the VQ comp.  The 6” upper is threaded with nut.  I seem to like the 6” without the comp but I’ve only had one match with it.

 

preference on comps?  Preference on ammo?

 

thanks for comments.  

 

 

[blackss06]

2 hours ago, Hoops said:

@blackss06 I assume you like the brass grips to add weight to rear of the gun?  I still have my MKIII with 5” bill barrel.  Back when I was shooting outlaw matches.  A friend of mine worked the trigger down to 1-3/4 lb with short reset.  It was fun running plate racks.  It’s just too heavy for me now at age 72 with lower back issues.  I recently bought a 6” Mamba upper.  I’ve shot one match with it and picked up time on 3 stages I think.  I ran it without a comp.

 

preference on comps?  Preference on ammo?

 

thanks for comments.  

 

 

I just like more weight on the gun in general. I’m used to runnng 929s and even on my CO setup, run brass grips and backstrap. On my 6” RFPI Scorpion, I just run the additional rail segment and very heavily textured grips. I may eventually try the brass on it but it feels okay to me for how little I shoot it. 
 

I run an Allchin 2 port comp on the 4.5” RFPO, they’re light, cheap, and can be cleaned with a drill bit. On the Scorpion, I run the Volquartsen comp and use their cleaning tool which also works great. Again, perfect world, I’d be running Scorpion and a milled for an optic Scorpion like what Adam uses (except his are mambai).

 

Always used to use mini-mags because I thought that was necessary for reliability but switch to standard velocity CCI this season after realizing it runs great out of both guns. 

[Flatland Shooter]

Going from a Ruger Mk2 (without comp) versus the Mamba X (with comp) made little difference with the Mini-mag ammo. But now that the Mamba is broke in, it really likes the CCI SV ammo. Less muzzle movement and very little recoil.  For practice I buy bricks of Armscor 40 gr standard velocity ammo. A little slower than the Mini-mag stuff but still faster than the CCI standard velocity ammo.  Probably not as reliable as the CCI standard velocity ammo but cheap enough that I can get in some good practice.

 

For my 10/22 I stick with the Mini-mag rounds for the reliability. Not much improvement versus the standard velocity ammo but also little difference in the "feel".  Its also a lightweight gun at just under 4#.  No comp on the long gun.

 

I've also included a lot of dry fire with both guns. As long as I keep it honest, the dry fire seems to smooth out my shooting while helping me with increased speed over live fire.  Instead of 0.6 second first shots at the range, I can practice 0.40 to 0.49 second first shot in dry fire.  Transitions in dry-fire and live fire are still about the same but I hope this too will improve.

 

If not already trying it, some dry-fire practice may help you get back into the groove.  At 71, I also gave up shooting irons in favor of a good red dot sight.

 

 

[Farmer]

Good info here. I’m just getting my target stands built and the info here will help me get started on more of the right track. Thanks. 

[bigdawgbeav]

On 10/9/2023 at 11:19 PM, Renno said:

Hey Hoops, I wrote this SCSA guide a while back that I think may help you out https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yf3uV8sK0d5EXKoqDHWNpb-bEESYwYE9aJQCeOi2XKw/edit?usp=drivesdk

 

What blackss06 says about balancing speed/aggression is absolutely right and that's the best strategy for SCSA.

 

I think the most important difference between pistol and rifle is that rifle has a third point of contact (the stock), which keeps it in line with your body. When mastering rimfire pistol, it's huge if you can keep the pistol aligned in your hands for both irons and optics, proportional to your body. Imagine you are looking at yourself shooting from a top down view and think of your body like a capitol letter T. Your shoulders are the top of the T, and the stem is the direction of the barrel. See the image in the link below.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1G1IBLCm_zuHEkOUhQY47incrV-0nwYVJ/view?usp=drivesdk

 

When you rotate your body to swing toward your next target, you should keep the T formation so that the barrel of the pistol is always facing perpendicular with your shoulders. This makes the gun feel more predictable in a swing if you can keep this aligned, and feel similar to a rifle with practice

I don't know why anyone would listen to this @Renno guy.  He clearly doesn't know what he's talking about.  

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by bigdawgbeav