J.Bagakis Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 On the subject of making major with a .38/357, Has anyone used Bullseye to make major in a .38 case with a 180gr. bullet? Am I asking for trouble or what? I remeber when Jason and I were loading 200gr. bullets at 200PF for bowling pins a few years ago but, we were using Blue dot then. I guess I am just cheap and lazy but, if I can I would like to stick with Bullseye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Sahlberg Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 Try Hodgdon Universal Clays, Titegroup, or HS-6, Bullseye will blow your gun apart at major. Remember Bullseye is also temperature sensitive and very inconsitent in FPS from the same medium range loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 Yeah, I wouldn't try using Bullseye. The only other powder I ever trusted with heavy bullets in .38 Spl. brass (other than Blue Dot, of course) was Unique. I don't remember any of the loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt S Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 I currently shoot 158 gr RN with 4.7 gr W231 giving me a MINOR power factor. I have loaded 180 gr XTP and 180 gr JHP using Bullseye at 3.0 grs and 3.5 grs respectively. I HAVE NOT cronoed the loads and do not shoot them on a full time basis. They do not kick in my model 66 with a 4 barrel. You would probably have to go a little higher with the Bullseye load to make MAJOR. I DO NOT KNOW what long term effect that would have on your gun, but if it is truley a .38/.357 mag I don't see the problem as you wouldn't have a problem shooting magnum loads. Why not considere shooting magnum loads if you want major, I'm going to give it a try (even though I know they kick a lot more). Good luck, please let use know what you deside to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Bagakis Posted December 28, 2005 Author Share Posted December 28, 2005 I currently shoot 158 gr RN with 4.7 gr W231 giving me a MINOR power factor. I have loaded 180 gr XTP and 180 gr JHP using Bullseye at 3.0 grs and 3.5 grs respectively. I HAVE NOT cronoed the loads and do not shoot them on a full time basis. They do not kick in my model 66 with a 4 barrel. You would probably have to go a little higher with the Bullseye load to make MAJOR. I DO NOT KNOW what long term effect that would have on your gun, but if it is truley a .38/.357 mag I don't see the problem as you wouldn't have a problem shooting magnum loads. Why not considere shooting magnum loads if you want major, I'm going to give it a try (even though I know they kick a lot more).Good luck, please let use know what you deside to do. I will probably try some of the Blue dot or 2400 I have. I want to stay away from the Magnum loads because of too much recoil and the longer case won't help my reload times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 John - You can't even make Minor with current published data, much less Major. Alliant's max +P load is 3.8 grains with 158 grain lead bullets; it took 4.1 grains for me to get ~820 fps from a 4" barrel (I shoot mainly IDPA). I've had good luck with the new Unique in .357 loads - 6.8 grains gives >1100 fps with 158 lead in .357 brass. Alliant shows data for 200 grain bullets in both .38 and .357; split the difference between them and you'd probably be in the ballpark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooper_999 Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 (edited) On the subject of making major with a .38/357, Has anyone used Bullseye to make major in a .38 case with a 180gr. bullet? Am I asking for trouble or what? I remeber when Jason and I were loading 200gr. bullets at 200PF for bowling pins a few years ago but, we were using Blue dot then. I guess I am just cheap and lazy but, if I can I would like to stick with Bullseye. measured load: 5,8grs VV N350, Case .38SPL G.F.L (Fiocchi), 200grs H&N LRN copper plated "high speed", OAL 38,4mm, FED 100 Pressure was between 2199 bar and 2459 bar (8 shots) Testbarrel length 152mm, Temp. 20° C, V1 between 301,0 and 306,0 m/sec This load is only for .357Mag guns! This load made major in my 586 4" (PF ~176) without problems! I´ve shot that load for 4 or 5 years.... Regards, Sascha Some guys here have also a often used load with that bullets and Bullseye for Major - I´ll ask them for data! Edited December 28, 2005 by cooper_999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnRodriguez Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 160 gr Billy bullet, with 6.0gr VVn340. 1070 fps, 171 pf in a 38 R-P special+p case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooper_999 Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 Some guys here have also a often used load with that bullets and Bullseye for Major - I´ll ask them for data! ok - here we go, i´ve got the data from a friend in between: he´s using the same bullet as with my load with 4,5grs to 4,6grs Bullseye - PF 173 to 175 (same as mentioned above - only for .357 Mag Revos!) DVC! Sascha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 Question: Can you make Major in a .38 special case with a 180 bullet? A: Yes, but it is no longer a .38, it is a .357 Magnum. You usually need Mag pressures or near-mag to get major performance. Question: Can you do it with Bullseye? A: Maybe once. I've made Major with Bullseye in a .357 mag case. Neither the gun nor I was very happy with the load. Sticky extraction, pierced primers, lousy accuracy. My personal feeling on the .357 vs. .38 case, and going with .38s "to make reloads faster" is that the advantage is illusory. I've never had problems getting empties out of a revolver. (But then, I've struck ROs with flying moonclips, too.) If you're going to go the .38 case/180 route, a few suggestions: Look for powders in the Blue Dot burning range. N-350, HS-7, 2400 and N-110 come to mind. Then load long. Long enough to not fit a .38 cylinder would be good. But at least load long enough to act as a visual reminder "this is a .357Mag-class load, pdo not stuff it in a J frame." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 (edited) I have been making major with 38 Special cases for a few years now. I have well over 15K rd through my 4" 586 without any noticable ill-effects. After researching many powders from Alliant, Hodgdon & VV, I settled on Unique. Its relatively inexpensive, easy to find, burns clean (honest) and does not flash as much as other powders that will do the job (AA9, VV N-110, etc.) . The best bullet to use is the 158 gr CPRN from Berry's. It has a very long profile (0.693") which makes it perfect for 38 cases. The bullets are also relatively cheap. I pay about $55/1000 when I order in bulk. Although I would have preffered 180 or 200 gr bullets, I could not find a reasonably priced source. Here is my load that I use exclusively in 357 Mag guns. 158 gr Berry's CPRN 6.8 gr Unique Fed 100 SP primers 1.540" CTG OAL 1075 +/- 10 fps - 4" 586, n=12 The load I started with was 1.590" CTG OAL using 7.2 gr Unique in a 38 case. This yeilds the same velocity results. This gave me a 357 Mag length ctg in a 38 case. Again, because the Berry's profile is so long, there is plenty of room to get a good crimp. If you look at avaialble pressure/load data from Alliant, you will see that you are well under 357 Mag limit pressures, but well in excess of 38 Special +P pressures. My interpolations put it at about 25000 psi. I didn't do this to make reloads faster, just to standardize the cases and die set up I used. On my progressive press, a 38 case will cycle when loading 357s, but the results were a problem. It was easy to have 1 or 2 38s in the 357 bucket pass by unnoticed. Also, 38s are a lot easier and cheaper to get than 357s. It also made switching from Major to minor loads a simple matter of swapping powder measures. Good luck & Happy New Year, Craig Edited December 28, 2005 by Bones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 (edited) John - for a heavy bullet, here's a possibility: http://www.magnusbullets.com/images/bullet...os/image507.jpg Note that it wounldn't intrude too much into the case. It should work fine in a .38 Special case, and could serve as an indicator that you should keep it out of your M37s and M12s. Edited December 28, 2005 by revchuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikey357 Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 BULLSEYE for Major...asking...for...TROUBLE!!!....mikey357 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Bagakis Posted December 29, 2005 Author Share Posted December 29, 2005 BULLSEYE for Major...asking...for...TROUBLE!!!....mikey357 Thanks Guys for all the info! If it does not rain tomorrow I am going try some 180gr Bear Creek Moly bullets with 2400 and Blue Dot. I will let you know how it goes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 Some guys here have also a often used load with that bullets and Bullseye for Major - I´ll ask them for data! ok - here we go, i´ve got the data from a friend in between: he´s using the same bullet as with my load with 4,5grs to 4,6grs Bullseye - PF 173 to 175 (same as mentioned above - only for .357 Mag Revos!) DVC! Sascha Sascha and John - Strangely enough, when I checked Alliant's website, it looks like Sascha's friend's load is within .357 Mag pressures...even the new, lower ones. Alliant's data for .357 Magnum for a 200 grain RNL gives 5.3 grains of Bullseye at 33,900 psi at an overall length of 1.575" (40 mm), and 3.3 grains for .38 Special +P at 17,100 psi at an overall length of 1.54" (38.1 mm). Assuming (there's that acronym) you load long, it should work out. If that 180 grain bullet has a crimp groove to keep it within SAAMI OAL in a .357 case, and you use the crimp groove, you're in uncharted territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Bagakis Posted December 30, 2005 Author Share Posted December 30, 2005 BULLSEYE for Major...asking...for...TROUBLE!!!....mikey357 Thanks Guys for all the info! If it does not rain tomorrow I am going try some 180gr Bear Creek Moly bullets with 2400 and Blue Dot. I will let you know how it goes! Well I went out and tried two different powders today. The first was 7.2gr of Blue Dot with a 180gr. Bear Creek bullet. That was going about 1010 FPS, 181.8,PF The other was 4.8gr of Bullseye with the 180gr Bear Creek. That was going 905 FPS, 162.9 PF These were all shot out of my 6.5" 627 (light barrel) In a .38spl. case with Federal primmers. I am so use to the 120 PF of ICORE, man I feel like a wimp! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sargenv Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Those 357's snap a little bit more than the pipsqueak 120 pf loads don't they? But then I was the crazy one that first time I shot ICORE at Richmond with that full house 10 mm stuff.. 180's at something like 1150 fps (207 pf). lol As I recall people were avoiding RO'ing me due to the blast.. After recently shooting those same 180's at like 725 fps(130 pf) I too would be a wimp again.. I may have some data about heavy bullet loads for the 357 laying around somewhere.. I haven't been home all week or I would have dug it up. Vince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ38super Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 When I first began shooting ICORE I was using the only revo I owned at the time. A Ruger SuperRedhawk 44 mag with a 9.5" barrel. With what I thought were my light loads.... 200 grains @ 1050+ for 210+ PF but I still had fun. After watching the other shooters I realized I was making it harder on myself though. Now I have a 686+ and shoot 130PF loads with 135gr Billy Bullets and Vit N330 that are great to shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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