38 short colt pressure.

[Joe4d]

 Fixing to gear up for 38 short colt, 4" 627, 125 pf..
Bullets are 147 coated.
Looking at powder MFG web sight data for 38 spc and 9mm and see much higher pressure for 9mm.  I am actually thinking of going with slower powder to keep pressure down.
On hand is BE86. probably work great but like to save the 2 lbs I have for full power 357 and 45 acp . Stuff is awsome for pin loads.
American Select... doesnt meter so well in a Dillon.... have little other use for it unless I get another 45 and want some basic blasting ammo.
Tightgroup,,, published data looks ok,, but cylinders get super hot and I know it smoked with old school moly,, no idea on the new coatings.
No published data on WST,,, might be too fast. and spike pressure befrore I hit power factor.
AA a bunch on hand, but IAW Hodgdon page pressure seems to get real high, real fast in 9mm...
Loading in a 627 so 1.150 I am guessing,,, got WIn , Wolff, and CCI sp and federal SPM
AAny thoughts ?

 

[Mcfoto]

I load 147 gr at 1.2 oal. American Select works well for me too.

[superdude]

Maybe something useful here:

 

https://www.ssusa.org/content/handloading-the-38-short-colt-for-competition/

 

[Joe4d]

thanks good article..
Probably going with AA#2 as I have a bunch,, and IAW most of the burn rate charts its slower than Tight group and WST... although WST seems to move around the charts. 
Ideally I would go with BE86 and I bet it would really work well but I like it for more full power stuff and only have a couple lbs...
Gonna use up my AMerican select in 38 special cases with truncated cone bullets I have left with the old Precision Moly coated bullets.

I picked up a one off 38 special sizer,  9mm seat and taper crimp in the bins at the gun show... but forgot I need the powder expander (Dillon 550),,, I THINK I have a 38 super conversion kit buried some where with one in it... If not have to take apart my 9mm tool head.
Anyone with clean shot or #2 chrono results ?

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by Joe4d

[Joe4d]

Annnnnnd my 9mm set has a Seat/crimp,,, vs a seat and crimp so gonna have to canabalize my 9mm tool head,,, als cant find my 38 super conversion kit, so having to pull the powder funnel from the 9mm anyways..  (Talking 550 here). 
Seeing guys using clays, american select, and tightgroup without issues, so figuring my Accurate #2 should be fine. a bit slower,, See how the bullets look in the case. Will probably see what 1.160 looks like.

[Joe4d]

finally got press set up.  had figured on a 3.3-3.6 ish ladder, first scale came out with 3.4 grs so rolled with is.
New Starline 38 short colt brass.
Accurate #2 3.4 grs
Bayou .358 coated 145gr RN,, but they weighed 147 on my scale.
1.165 OAL. Taper crimped till bullet had a slight groove in coating but not to the lead.
Federal small pistol magnum primers.
852 fps average with 7 rounds  SD 6.1   came out to 125 pf 
Loaded some with winchester SP and got 846 average
 

[ysrracer]

.38 Short Colt and 9mm cases have roughly the same internal capacity.

 

Any load data for 9mm can be used.

[louu]

On 8/10/2023 at 8:45 PM, Joe4d said:

Annnnnnd my 9mm set has a Seat/crimp,,, vs a seat and crimp so gonna have to canabalize my 9mm tool head,,, als cant find my 38 super conversion kit, so having to pull the powder funnel from the 9mm anyways..  (Talking 550 here). 
Seeing guys using clays, american select, and tightgroup without issues, so figuring my Accurate #2 should be fine. a bit slower,, See how the bullets look in the case. Will probably see what 1.160 looks like.

Im about to start this adventure as well and I've seen a lot of people on the internet using clays to. To me that's weird because all the 9mm stuff says don't use clays for 9mm.

[louu]

10 hours ago, ysrracer said:

.38 Short Colt and 9mm cases have roughly the same internal capacity.

 

Any load data for 9mm can be used.

I was thinking the same thing but I a 627 wouldn't that short brass give the bullet a lot of unsupported flight once it leaves the brass floating to the barrel plus the cylinder gap causing all that pressure loss? 

[ysrracer]

1 hour ago, louu said:

I was thinking the same thing but I a 627 wouldn't that short brass give the bullet a lot of unsupported flight once it leaves the brass floating to the barrel plus the cylinder gap causing all that pressure loss? 

 

Sure, use 9mm load data as a starting point. Here's my load

 

Name: .38 Short Colt: 160gr Bayou.RN: Clays 3.1gr: Starline Case: OAL 1.2
Notes: S&W 627
Shots: 4
Average: 816 ft/s
SD: 18 ft/s
Min: 787 ft/s
Max: 836 ft/s
Spread: 49 ft/s
Power Factor Average: 130
Power Factor Low: 125
Power Factor High: 133
Barometric Pressure: 30 in Hg
Temperature: 63 F
Weight: 160.0 gr.
Powder/Wt: Clays/3.1gr
Bullet/Wt: Bayou 160gr RN
Primer: Fed SPP
Case: Starline
OAL: 1.2
Gun: S&W 627

[ysrracer]

1 hour ago, louu said:

Im about to start this adventure as well and I've seen a lot of people on the internet using clays to. To me that's weird because all the 9mm stuff says don't use clays for 9mm.

 

So Clays powder is virtually unattainable. Clay Dot is and it's more or less the same thing.

 

Here's my 9mm load

 

Name: 9mm: 147gr Blue RN: Clays 2.75gr: Fed Case: OAL 1.190: S&W 929
Notes: S&W 929
Shots: 8
Average: 858 ft/s
SD: 9 ft/s
Min: 841 ft/s
Max: 867 ft/s
Spread: 26 ft/s
Power Factor Average: 126
Power Factor Low: 123
Power Factor High: 127
Barometric Pressure: 29 in Hg
Temperature: 81 F
Weight: 147.0 gr.
Powder/Wt: Clays/2.75gr
Bullet/Wt: Blue 147gr RN
Primer: Fed SPP
Case: Fed
OAL: 1.190
Gun: S&W 929 / 5" barrel

[Joe4d]

2 hours ago, louu said:

Im about to start this adventure as well and I've seen a lot of people on the internet using clays to. To me that's weird because all the 9mm stuff says don't use clays for 9mm.

My thoughts as well, which is why I didnt use WST, generally not reccommended for 9mm, those clay loads listed above gotta be crazy high pressure.. Also 38 sc brass is made like 38 special brass not 9mm brass, Stronger ? weaker ? dunno.  I know YSracer been doing this a long time.. But for me I wanted a slower powder... Hence the A#2... just figured if YS racer hadnt blown himself up (although he has posted split 38 sc cases pictures before) with clays I should be ok with A#2. 
Incidently 3.4 grs under a cast 147  came out at about the same thing as 9mm data.
Another wierd one, powder position seemed to make about a 10 fps difference.  Between powder at rear of case and front.. and it wasnt random was very consistent each way.
Would like to find a bit bulkier powder in about the same burn rate, 244 chart shoes its pretty dense,,, Is there a new version of Unique ? 

[ysrracer]

7 minutes ago, Joe4d said:

just figured if YS racer hadnt blown himself up

 

Yet

 

The primers aren't flattened, and are nowhere near as bad as 9mm major.

 

Also a 627 is a .357 magnum rated gun.

 

As always, always follow published load data, not my nonsense posted on the internet.

 

Be safe, ymmv