jmac2112 Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 I've been shooting a RIval for a few months now. I finally got around to doing some bench rest group shooting, and found that my reloads are not up to snuff. I get 2" groups at 25 yards using factory ammo, but my own loads yield 4" to 5" groups. My recipe is: Blue Bullets 147 gr. round nose, .355 diameter 3.2 grains Sport Pistol once-fired Federal brass CCI primers 1.120 OAL crimped to .377" at case mouth chronos at 137 PF loaded on a Dillon XL 650 This ammo passes the "plunk" test, cycles the gun flawlessly and leaves no lead in the barrel, but clearly I need to change something to get better accuracy. Things I've considered trying are upping the powder charge a bit (maybe 140 PF), trying a .356 diameter 147 grain bullet, and trying a 125 grain bullet at both those diameters. Anyone have any other ideas? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 Some guns like lighter bullets. Try an RMR 124 grain truncated cone matchwinner with your powder. If that doesn't work, try N330. It dropped the size of my groups in half from using N320. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmac2112 Posted July 22, 2023 Author Share Posted July 22, 2023 Interesting! Thanks for the recommendations. I had never heard of RMR before, but it looks like they make really good bullets. I went through some N320 and N330 last year when I couldn't seem to find Sport Pistol. Great powders, and I wish I had some left so I could do some testing now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillGarlandJr Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 6 hours ago, RangerTrace said: Some guns like lighter bullets. Try an RMR 124 grain truncated cone matchwinner with your powder. If that doesn't work, try N330. It dropped the size of my groups in half from using N320. I was loading Blue Bullets 135gr’ers for my Rival/Rival S and was getting similar results to those of the OP. 4” or so with the occasional flyer. Based on RangerTrace’s recommendation to another forum member, I got my hands on some of the 124gr Matchwinners and have been super happy with them. Groups shrank to around 2.5” using some Prima V powder I bought years ago, and the flyers went away. Laid in a big supply of them after that and will be running them for the foreseeable future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmac2112 Posted July 23, 2023 Author Share Posted July 23, 2023 Another RMR endorsement! I notice they have a 147 grain Matchwinner also, but apparently it won't work in barrels with short leades. I have some CZs and I believe the Canik has a longer leade than those guns, but I'm a little wary of trying that option. Not that I'm dead set against 124 grain, but I do prefer the 147s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpm2953 Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 I use 125 BBI 3.8gr sport pistol 1.100” 134pf. both my rivals shoot lights out. It’s really amazing how accurate they are. this same load is ridiculously accurate in my gen 5 17 and shadow 2 as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuey Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 With my Canik I did not have good luck with 147’s. It shot great with factory 115, but I ended up with 124’s. RMR are good and so is Brass Monkey bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmac2112 Posted July 23, 2023 Author Share Posted July 23, 2023 I have a crap ton of 125 grain Blue Bullets, so I'm going to start there and see if this is just a bullet weight issue. I'll probably end up trying the RMR 124s as well. I've shot BBI bullets before and liked them, but I never did any accuracy testing with them. And I keep hearing good things about Brass Monkey as well, so I'll definitely keep those in mind. Thanks to everyone for the feedback! Keep it coming if you have any more suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 1 hour ago, jmac2112 said: I have a crap ton of 125 grain Blue Bullets, so I'm going to start there and see if this is just a bullet weight issue. I'll probably end up trying the RMR 124s as well. I've shot BBI bullets before and liked them, but I never did any accuracy testing with them. And I keep hearing good things about Brass Monkey as well, so I'll definitely keep those in mind. Thanks to everyone for the feedback! Keep it coming if you have any more suggestions. I don't know if you've checked the RMR pricing, but at the amount I'm buying, they are around .10 a piece. And they are always available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmac2112 Posted July 23, 2023 Author Share Posted July 23, 2023 Yes, I was surprised that they weren't more expensive! Always available is a nice feature as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 When you pull a bullet you're not cutting through the coating right? Have you tried measuring the bullet to make sure you're effecting the Dia when you crimp? Lee FCD? What do is your standard deviation? I load 147 Blue .355, 3.0 N320, 1.115 OAL, I foget the crimp I think .378 or so. groups a touch over 2" at 25. I have a friend running basically the same load but with 147 TC instead of RN and .356 he see's sub 2". I was seeing slightly better results with the 356 TC, but I still have a few thousand RN's I'll use up before I switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmac2112 Posted July 24, 2023 Author Share Posted July 24, 2023 I've pulled bullets and am definitely not damaging the coating or swaging the bullets down. I use the Dillon crimp die. I own a Lee FDC but haven't seen any use for it, plus I was afraid it would squeeze the bullets (perhaps a misguided fear). Are you recommending the FDC, or recommending that I stay away from it? Feel free to PM me if you think this will start a war! I'm ashamed to admit I've never recorded the SD when I chrono. I record the average PF and the low PF (using the lowest velocity out of a ten shot string). There is always at least 1 PF difference in those numbers, usually two, so there is room for improvement. I would expect the difference to result in vertical stringing, but with my latest testing I was surprised at how the shots were all over the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 Coating and bullet damage in the crimp zone is really not a thing at USPSA distances. Here's some testing I did with abused bullets, and they still all shot within 3" at 25. I'd try a lighter bullet first. That will be the biggest change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 56 minutes ago, jmac2112 said: I've pulled bullets and am definitely not damaging the coating or swaging the bullets down. I use the Dillon crimp die. I own a Lee FDC but haven't seen any use for it, plus I was afraid it would squeeze the bullets (perhaps a misguided fear). Are you recommending the FDC, or recommending that I stay away from it? Feel free to PM me if you think this will start a war! I'm ashamed to admit I've never recorded the SD when I chrono. I record the average PF and the low PF (using the lowest velocity out of a ten shot string). There is always at least 1 PF difference in those numbers, usually two, so there is room for improvement. I would expect the difference to result in vertical stringing, but with my latest testing I was surprised at how the shots were all over the place. I was just wondering if you were using a FCD, if the current die is doing all the things you need changing wont help. Similarly if you're seeing fairly consistent velocity that's probably not the issue either. I'd try 356's, that extra .001 has made a noticeable difference on one of my guns. It's less obvious on the canik but there does seem to be a slight improvement on my rival with 356. If you were local I'd give you a handful of bullets to try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmac2112 Posted July 24, 2023 Author Share Posted July 24, 2023 OK, thanks! I do have a bunch of Blue Bullets 125 TC in both .355 and .356, so that's where I'll start. I used to shoot a Shadow 2, and that was my go-to bullet for that gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmspaul Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 23 hours ago, Racinready300ex said: I'd try 356's, that extra .001 has made a noticeable difference on one of my guns. It's less obvious on the canik but there does seem to be a slight improvement on my rival with 356. If you like the blue bullets, I'd try this. I have 4 shooters in my family shooting USPSA right now. I tried the 125gr RN .355 blue bullets and got poor accuracy out of our Caniks, Sigs and a friend's CZ. None of them shot as tight as they did with the Summit bullets that are .356. Same load on both, both making about 135pf. My plan was to go back and try the .356 Blue Bullets at some point, since they're the exact same price. But Blue bullets had a price increase and Summit had a decrease and I get the 14% discount on only 2 cases. So, we've been shooting Summit all year and have been happy with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmac2112 Posted July 25, 2023 Author Share Posted July 25, 2023 Thanks for the tip! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmac2112 Posted January 6 Author Share Posted January 6 Just to follow up on this months later (in case anyone is interested).... I tried the RMR 124 gr Matchwinners and the Precision Delta 124 gr JHP (V1). They are both great bullets, but I got slightly better accuracy with the PD (1.6" vs. 2" groups at 25 yards, benched). I shot a bunch of groups with each type over several range sessions and then averaged the group sizes, so I'm pretty confident in the results. Having said that, I would not hesitate to shoot the RMRs in a match! I continue to get crap accuracy with Blue Bullets 125 TC (about 4" at 25 yards, benched). Not blaming the bullets since I'm sure I need to work on my reloading technique. I just bought a new powder-through expander die made by Photo Escape that looks like it might help: Photo Escape - 9mm – HTC Powder Transfer Unit (photoescapeinc.com) It's like a Lyman M die except that stage 2 is longer than stage 1. I'm not sure I follow the logic there, but it gets good reviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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