What should I do? How to add a DPP to a Shadow 2 Orange? Cajun / CZ Cus / Plate?

[asn]

I have a Shadow II Orange on the way that I want to put an optic on for USPSA.  I am leaning towards a Deltapoint Pro.  Should I go with their dovetail plate?  My gut is telling me no, because it will sit pretty high, so that leaves milling.  Do I go with Cajun's milling, Vulcan's milling,  CZ Custom's Milling, or CZ Customs RDS plate?  I have never added an optic before, always have been an iron guy. 

What are the pros and cons to the above?   Are there better options?

Also, do I add the rear backup sight for the DPP?

thank you,

 

[HesedTech]

First issue, is the Deltapoint dot where you want to stake your optics?

• If you mill the slide the optic you choose becomes the only foot print which will fit on the gun.
• A plate mount milled into the slide will help with this issue, however it will not be as low to the bore as milling for just one brand of dot.
• Try the dove tail first and decide which optic you want. 
• If you are shooting competition only there is no need for backup sights, front or rear.
• The key milling the slide is a good precise tight fit on the slide. The amount of shooting done in competition & practice will wear the mounting screws if there is any play in the mounting system. It is not uncommon to have a screw shear off.

 

As far as milling goes on CZ I've used Cajon and Patriot Defense and they both do a very nice job. CZ Custom is well known and respected as well as Primary Machining.

 

Here's a thread about the topic:

Do a search of CZ on Enos this has been discussed a lot.

Edited January 3, 2023 by HesedTech

[jpm2953]

Big fan of the CZC RDS system. You can easily go to another dot or even back to irons. 

 

 

[asn]

Quote

• A plate mount milled into the slide will help with this issue, however it will not be as low to the bore as milling for just one brand of dot.
• Try the dove tail first and decide which optic you want. 
• If you are shooting competition only there is no need for backup sights, front or rear.
• The key milling the slide is a good precise tight fit on the slide. The amount of shooting done in competition & practice will wear the mounting screws if there is any play in the mounting system. It is not uncommon to have a screw shear off.

 

If a screw shears off, is it repairable, or do I then need a new slide?

 

I'm assuming a direct mill solves this issue, as it will be tighter than the plate.  But with that said, I could always replace the plate if a screw shears off of the optic / plate, instead of from the optic / slide.

 

Do the screws ever shear off of the plate / slide?

 

thank you,

[CZ85Combat]

CZ Customs plate does not move and will not shear off the plate mounting screws.

[asn]

Quote

CZ Customs plate does not move and will not shear off the plate mounting screws.

 

 

 

Does using the plate make it more likely that the screws that hold the optic down will end up shearing?  Logic tells me yes, because the optic isn't locked in as well.  But I am also a newbie here with optics.

 

 

[Malarky112]

I have both the CZC plate system and a direct milled slide. 
 

Both have their upsides and downsides 

 

CZC plate you can switch optics or use iron sights (if you buy the iron sight plate which is $80 I think). 
It sits up a little higher and I don’t think it’s quite as secure as a direct mill. No matter what I tried the screws would work loose eventually. (I’m sure someone will argue otherwise but that’s been my experience). It can sometimes be hard to find the plates in stock as well, the steel is a better choice than the aluminum ones. 
 

Direct mill is great fit, snug and low as possible. Obvious con is once you commit to an optic, that’s it, your stuck with that footprint. 
 

Fir competition don’t worry about back up sights. Most prefer to take the front sight off too. 
 

Personally I’m not sure I’d pick the delta point as my optic but that’s another discussion entirely. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by Malarky112

[asn]

Do the screws come loose on your optic that doesn't have the plate?

 

also, which optic would you go with and why?   I was leaning towards the DPP because it has the largest window, and I know it gets really bright.  It also has a lifetime warranty.

 

thank you

[HesedTech]

3 hours ago, asn said:

If a screw shears off, is it repairable, or do I then need a new slide?

Yes it’s repairable. Had my CZ Shadow 2 plate screw shear off. Took it to Gunsmith with digital mill and he took it right out with no damage to threads. He said it isn’t unusual, but the more precise fit one has with the optic the less likely it will happen. 
 

Yes screws come loose in both plate and mill. Again the more precise the milling the less it happens. Most people use at least blue lock tight on threads. 
 

I use SRO optics, but many are going with the MAX, Alpha Dot or similar. Don’t bother with Vortex, not because it isn’t a good dot; it’s just small in comparison to these others. Big window better, ugh. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by HesedTech

[Johnny_Chimpo]

1 hour ago, asn said:

Do the screws come loose on your optic that doesn't have the plate?

 

also, which optic would you go with and why?   I was leaning towards the DPP because it has the largest window, and I know it gets really bright.  It also has a lifetime warranty.

 

thank you

 

You seem fixated on screws shearing off and coming loose and I'm not sure why. 

 

I have tens of thousands of rounds through pistols with both direct milled and plate mounted optics and I have never, ever had an issue like the ones that worry you so much.

 

I don't know if you're aware that properly designed plate systems (like the CZ OEM system) has a system of interlocking bosses and recesses between the bottom of the plate and its mounting surface on the slide.  That interlock takes the overwhelming majority of shear stresses and the screws just hold the plate down in place.  Likewise, all quality optics have recesses on their base to mate up to properly designed mounts.  All quality plates have bosses on the surface that mates to the optic and they fit in the recesses on the bottom surface of the optic.  The fit is close enough that they also take the major share of shear stresses leaving the screws to clamp the optic down onto the plate.

 

A proper direct milled pocket is also done with bosses that connect to the recesses under the optic.

 

In order to keep screws from backing out all one needs is high quality screws (I only buy them from McMaster Carr), high quality bits (I only use Wiha brand), enough torque (most internet knowledge is wrong and under-tightens), and proper thread locker (medium strength Permatex or Loctite, NOT Vibra Tite)

 

For competition use I'd forget the DPP and consider the Trijicon SRO, SIG Romeo 3Max, and C-More RTS 2.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Johnny_Chimpo

[asn]

Honestly, it never crossed my mind, until someone posted about it above.  I guess that was an oh-s#!t moment that I shouldn't worry about.

 

As I am still learning here, can you share your pros and cons on the 4 optics, including the DPP?

 

thank you,

[Johnny_Chimpo]

8 minutes ago, asn said:

can you share your pros and cons on the 4 optics, including the DPP?

 

I've only ever used Trijicon pistol optics so I can't give you feedback on those I've never owned.

 

Your best bet is to spend some time on youtube watching videos covering those optics.  Pay attention to reviews done by competition shooters and mostly ignore the tactical (or tactical wannabe) guys.  While their point of view is valid for their application, that isn't completely so in our application.

 

Here's an example of a good review

 

 

Same guy reviewing the Delta Point Pro, three years ago.  Just know that a lot has improved in three years, which is a huge reason why I STRONGLY favor pistols with optic plate mounting systems over direct milled.

 

[bravofox]

  I have a shadow 2 with the CZ custom plate system and a DPP. it has about 1000 rounds on it so far, it works great. I installed my dot properly with locktite and a torque wrench and my screws haven't budged, although I still always check them before a match. If you go that route, definitely get the steel plates. 

 

  I went with CZ Custom because they're a mainstream company, they offer high quality parts and service, and they offer an iron sight plate, which is important to me. I went with a plate system because I dont want to be tied down to one mounting footprint

 

  I picked the DPP because of the glass quality/clarity, the size of the window, my previous experience with leupold, and a good warranty. It's not the most bomb proof dot, but I liked it the best. The SRO and Romeo 3Max, as well as others, have bigger windows. The one thing I don't like about the DPP is the battery life, especially since the dot has to be on its highest setting on a sunny day

Edited January 14, 2023 by bravofox
formatting

[asn]

I actually mailed my slide to them this past week to do the same.  

 

I just felt their plate system was the way to go.