Moonclip Holders in the 2022 rules

[matteekay]

I realize I make up, like, 33%-50% of the IDPA revolver shooters on this forum but I figured I'd give it a shot...

 

I'm still running the moonclip holders I've used for years. They cover the front of the moon and have a post up the center, as was required in the pre-2022 rules. I was re-reading the rules tonight and realized there isn't anything preventing me from using the stacked open posts I use for USPSA:

 

 

Per 8.6.3.2: Moon clip carriers must either be of open top configuration, and must retain the moon clip by tension and a stud that protrudes through the center of the clip, or retains the moon clip with a snap or Velcro closure. 

 

It's definitely open top (and open everything else?), has a post through the center, and retains by tension. I think we no longer have the requirement that moons are held individually so I don't see why this would be disallowed. Has anyone gotten a ruling on these? Or is currently using them? 

[Thomas H]

Have neither gotten a ruling nor is currently using them (I do speedloaders when I shoot REV in IDPA) so take this merely as one SO's opinion---but the new rules took out a LOT of the older requirements for gear.

 

Someone is going to have a hard time coming up with a rule disallowing your gear. 

 

....this will not stop a local match director who is all about "the way it was done in the old days" from staunchly declaring that it isn't suitable enough for all-day concealed carry.   But from an actual rules standpoint, it is perfectly legal.

[matteekay]

1 minute ago, Thomas H said:

Have neither gotten a ruling nor is currently using them (I do speedloaders when I shoot REV in IDPA) so take this merely as one SO's opinion---but the new rules took out a LOT of the older requirements for gear.

 

Someone is going to have a hard time coming up with a rule disallowing your gear. 

 

....this will not stop a local match director who is all about "the way it was done in the old days" from staunchly declaring that it isn't suitable enough for all-day concealed carry.   But from an actual rules standpoint, it is perfectly legal.

 

This is my take, too (though as a MD, I'd NEVER argue these are illegal). I'm shooting the FL state championship in January; I'll probably email their SC ahead of time and get a response in case anyone questions it.

[Thomas H]

19 minutes ago, matteekay said:

 

This is my take, too (though as a MD, I'd NEVER argue these are illegal). I'm shooting the FL state championship in January; I'll probably email their SC ahead of time and get a response in case anyone questions it.

 

Given that it is IDPA, I'd completely agree that is the way to make sure prior to the match.

[matteekay]

Just now, Thomas H said:

 

Given that it is IDPA, I'd completely agree that is the way to make sure prior to the match.

 

My friend went through the same thing with his SBR'd Glock 17 to use it in PCC. That got spicy, lol.

[SSGGlock]

Tension being where the stud pushed the moonclip against the belt clip? Looks legal to me.

[Wrathen]

I only shoot local matches every once and a while with my 625 and I know I'm likely violating rules but since I'm shooting revolver no one cares.... BUT this wording always got me wondering

 

8.6.3.3  Moon clips may not be retained in the carrier by 3 or less cartridges.

 

for your moon clip holder the tension is only pushing 2-3 rounds against the back plate... so that that fall under this rule?

 

BUT to your original question I don't see anything under the rules stating a limit on the post holding 1 or 2 moon clips.

 

Breaking it down I see:

"Moon clip carriers must either be of open top configuration, or retains the moon clip with a snap or Velcro closure"

Yours is open top so check, now for the middle bit.

"and must retain the moon clip by tension and a stud that protrudes through the center of the clip"

stud, Check! ... tension, Check!

 

So going by these and seeing nothing specific about it doing a double stack of moon clips should be good to go. Now there is the catch all of:

"8.6.3.1  Be suitable for concealed carry and all day continuous wear."

Guy in chrono or MD could say a double stack isn't "suitable" for all day wear or concealed carry, because this statement can justify a lot. 

 

Other than that I would be interested to know what is meant by the 8.6.3.3 rule. 

 

PS

I SOed the 2021 Frostproof Florida state match under Ryan the MD and was a great match and good crew. Wish I still lived in Florida so I could make it down there for the matches.

Edited December 27, 2022 by Wrathen

[matteekay]

12 hours ago, Wrathen said:

I only shoot local matches every once and a while with my 625 and I know I'm likely violating rules but since I'm shooting revolver no one cares.... BUT this wording always got me wondering

 

8.6.3.3  Moon clips may not be retained in the carrier by 3 or less cartridges.

 

for your moon clip holder the tension is only pushing 2-3 rounds against the back plate... so that that fall under this rule?

 

 

I don't get that one, either. Neither styled of allowed moonclip holder (open with a stud or closed with a snap) uses the cartridges for retention. The only one I can think of that does is that older Safariland(?) where two of the cartridges slide into channels for retention and the rest hang off your belt, but that was never legal under any ruleset.

 

 

12 hours ago, Wrathen said:

PS

I SOed the 2021 Frostproof Florida state match under Ryan the MD and was a great match and good crew. Wish I still lived in Florida so I could make it down there for the matches.

 

The whole crew seems amazing and I can't wait to go shoot it! Somehow it turned into a trip to Universal for the kids and the Keys for my wife, but hey, small price to pay, lol  .

[SSGGlock]

I think 8.6.3.3, applies to those little plastic holders that two bullets slip into to hold it. I’ve seen them in ICORE. Kinda like those Safarilands.

[dayoung]

Here's the changes from the 2017 to 2022 rulebook(red is deleted text), specifically about moon clip carriers. I've also been trying to understand what the rules mean by "retained in the carrier by 3 or less cartridges". Previously that rule was talking about material surrounding the moon clip carrier, so I wonder if it's still expected that their be enough material in front/behind/sides that is pressing against at least 4 rounds under tension.

This is a long way of saying, that the front open style moon clip holder may not be legal still?

 

[matteekay]

5 hours ago, dayoung said:

Here's the changes from the 2017 to 2022 rulebook(red is deleted text), specifically about moon clip carriers. I've also been trying to understand what the rules mean by "retained in the carrier by 3 or less cartridges". 

 

I believe it's these:

 

On 12/27/2022 at 9:34 PM, SSGGlock said:

I think 8.6.3.3, applies to those little plastic holders that two bullets slip into to hold it. I’ve seen them in ICORE. Kinda like those Safarilands.