davidball Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 We just got a call from a friend. Our gunsmith experienced a fire and his shop was completely destroyed. My wife's gun was in his safe (she was due to pick it up tomorrow after being out of hand for almost two months). The report is that it suffered minor damage but the grip (the gun is all STI) will need to be replaced and the gun we will need to be re-chromed as it sustained some "surface" damage. My question is, could there have been other damage done from the heat? Distortion of some parts? Will it just need to be test fired to determine if there was further damage? Anyone ever experience anything like this before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 Bad. Tempering, surface hardness and who knows what.... I suppose there is no way to determine the acutal heat the gun was exposed to. Hopefully Phil Terry will weigh in on this. If it is a .45 I would be a little less concerned than if it is a .38 whatever (HIGH pressures). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidball Posted December 11, 2005 Author Share Posted December 11, 2005 If it is a .45 I would be a little less concerned than if it is a .38 whatever (HIGH pressures). STI 2011 in .40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjanglin Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 The color of the metal now should be looked at if it is not blue to straw colored its probably allright ,Ive had guns cryo treated to return the temper. Springs of course should be done away with. We weld on slides, frames and barrels all the time and the guns perform well,I would not be afraid to put it back in shape,Some times if the chrome is discolored it can be polished out,I certainly would not discard the gun! And you might contact the manufactuer of the parts they may check them out for you. Jim anglin Sailors Custom Pistols Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbadaboom Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 (edited) The gun would have to get hot enough to turn red and stay that way for a period of time for any serious problems to the frame and slide. There was a shooter (I can't remember who it was) a few years back that shot a Colt 1911 that he pulled out of a burn down house (I think) and cleaned it up. The grips hand burned off of it. He shot it in a big match w/o sights and did pretty good if memory serves me right. I'ld change all springs, trigger bow, hammer/sear etc.etc. for reliability purposes but I'm pretty shure the frame, slide and bbl. will be O.K.. Grip and thumb safeties ought to be good too along with the slide stop, firing pin retainer, and main spring plunger ends but I would change the extractor and firing pin and hammer strut and all pins i.e. sear, hammer etc.. The hard chrome was a plus in this situation also over bluing. Jim and other Gunsmiths on here will know more about the "Gun" aspect than I will. I'm just a certified welding Inspector and I know metals. I'm not a Gunsmith. Edited December 11, 2005 by Bigbadaboom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 (edited) The gun would have to get hot enough to turn red and stay that way for a period of time for any serious problems to the frame and slide. There was a shooter (I can't remember who it was) a few years back that shot a Colt 1911 that he pulled out of a burn down house (I think) and cleaned it up. The grips hand burned off of it. He shot it in a big match w/o sights and did pretty good if memory serves me right. That was Jim Wall out of Idaho..believe it was Area 1 in Missoula a few years back. Hope everyone is alright..sorry to hear about your gun..that is frustrating.. ..the gun would need to be exposed a fair amount of heat and for a good period of time to change the temper and cause any warpage..but once you see it you should be able to tell..springs should be changed and check the small parts..but if it was in a gun safe..it should have had a fair amount of protection.. Edited December 12, 2005 by eerw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue edge Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 David, Sorry to hear the bad news Was anyone hurt in the fire? Was this the guy near Columbus IN.? Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidball Posted December 12, 2005 Author Share Posted December 12, 2005 David, Sorry to hear the bad news Was anyone hurt in the fire? Was this the guy near Columbus IN.? Kevin No one was hurt. Yes, it was the guy a LOT of us use who is located near Columbus. Good guy, good gunsmith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwmiket Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Definitely let's hear what Phil Terry ( our resident metallurgical expert!) has to say re: this. Sorry to hear about it. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulm540 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 The gun would have to get hot enough to turn red and stay that way for a period of time for any serious problems to the frame and slide. There was a shooter (I can't remember who it was) a few years back that shot a Colt 1911 that he pulled out of a burn down house (I think) and cleaned it up. The grips hand burned off of it. He shot it in a big match w/o sights and did pretty good if memory serves me right. I'ld change all springs, trigger bow, hammer/sear etc.etc. for reliability purposes but I'm pretty shure the frame, slide and bbl. will be O.K.. Grip and thumb safeties ought to be good too along with the slide stop, firing pin retainer, and main spring plunger ends but I would change the extractor and firing pin and hammer strut and all pins i.e. sear, hammer etc.. The hard chrome was a plus in this situation also over bluing. Jim and other Gunsmiths on here will know more about the "Gun" aspect than I will. I'm just a certified welding Inspector and I know metals. I'm not a Gunsmith. Thant was a Norinco I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3quartertime Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 David, Sorry to hear the bad news Was anyone hurt in the fire? Was this the guy near Columbus IN.? Kevin No one was hurt. Yes, it was the guy a LOT of us use who is located near Columbus. Good guy, good gunsmith. Wow, that really sux's... Last Spring Gary got pretty sick and had to close shop for an extended period. Hope he's used up all the bad luck and things will start getting better!!! Gonna have to give him a call today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 A friend and fellow pin shooter, Jim Fawcett, had the same thing happen. House burns down, and the multiple gun safes full of guns are hosed out of the cinders. He dunked them each in a drum full of diesel and stacked them in his barn for cleaning when he had time each day. His Colt Series 70 pin gun had the Pachmayr grips charred off, but otherwise worked fine. New springs and mags, and he continued to shoot that gun at Second Chance for years. I don't recall that he had to scrap any of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cking Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 If the grips are melted mostly then replace all the springs. If grip is just distorted, then just the grips. If grips actually burn't up then you may have to replace sear, safety, hammer, trigger, firing pin, small parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidball Posted December 12, 2005 Author Share Posted December 12, 2005 Thanks for all of the replies thus far . . . it has been very helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boo radley Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Thanks for all of the replies thus far . . . it has been very helpful. Out of curiosity, how does insurance come into play on this, or does it? And who/how repairs and evaluates your gun? The same gunsmith? And in what order -- least damaged guns, first? Plus he's got no shop, left, no? Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 The quickest way I believe would be to have the slide and frame and bbl checked with a hardness t ester. a quick simple thing to do. that should verify structural integrity of the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbadaboom Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 The gun would have to get hot enough to turn red and stay that way for a period of time for any serious problems to the frame and slide. There was a shooter (I can't remember who it was) a few years back that shot a Colt 1911 that he pulled out of a burn down house (I think) and cleaned it up. The grips hand burned off of it. He shot it in a big match w/o sights and did pretty good if memory serves me right. I'ld change all springs, trigger bow, hammer/sear etc.etc. for reliability purposes but I'm pretty shure the frame, slide and bbl. will be O.K.. Grip and thumb safeties ought to be good too along with the slide stop, firing pin retainer, and main spring plunger ends but I would change the extractor and firing pin and hammer strut and all pins i.e. sear, hammer etc.. The hard chrome was a plus in this situation also over bluing. Jim and other Gunsmiths on here will know more about the "Gun" aspect than I will. I'm just a certified welding Inspector and I know metals. I'm not a Gunsmith. Thant was a Norinco I believe. I believe you are correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidball Posted December 13, 2005 Author Share Posted December 13, 2005 Thanks for all of the replies thus far . . . it has been very helpful. Out of curiosity, how does insurance come into play on this, or does it? And who/how repairs and evaluates your gun? The same gunsmith? And in what order -- least damaged guns, first? Plus he's got no shop, left, no? Man Our guy says everything is covered and that he will "make good" on any losses. He said he would do the repair work on the gun. Our question will be "when." His shop and all of his equipment is gone. We haven't talked directly to him yet. We will soon. He is not only our gunsmith, but also a friend who has suffered a tremendous loss. We want to give him a little time to process his whole situation. It is an unfortunate situation for a number of people who had guns deposited with him, but mostly for our gunsmith. He is temporarily without a livelihood. The temporary loss of our toy seems somewhat trivial by comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Boit Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 (edited) There is an article about that in one of the latest issue of Swat Magazine. The author had his house burnt and so does a lot of his weapons. He get some of them refinished and the results seems really good. The article is called "Project Phoenix" and it might be the October or November issue. FWIW Update : This is the December issue of the magazine. Kevin Mc Clung was the gunsmith in charge of the refinishing. Edited December 14, 2005 by Julien Boit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boo radley Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Our guy says everything is covered and that he will "make good" on any losses. He said he would do the repair work on the gun. Our question will be "when." His shop and all of his equipment is gone. We haven't talked directly to him yet. We will soon. He is not only our gunsmith, but also a friend who has suffered a tremendous loss. We want to give him a little time to process his whole situation.It is an unfortunate situation for a number of people who had guns deposited with him, but mostly for our gunsmith. He is temporarily without a livelihood. The temporary loss of our toy seems somewhat trivial by comparison. No, I certainly agree -- that sounds like a terrible loss for your friend. The personal connection aside, I was just genuinely curious how these things work, is all. If I had my car in a shop, and the shop burned down, I would expect to either get a check for the value of my car, if the shop's insurance company declared it a loss, or get my car back plus a check for the cost of repairing the fire damage, so I could take it somewhere else and have it fixed..... I'm wondering if guns, musical instruments, jewelry, and other items of value work the same way, when the repair shop is damaged, or broken into? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidball Posted December 13, 2005 Author Share Posted December 13, 2005 The personal connection aside, I was just genuinely curious how these things work, is all. If I had my car in a shop, and the shop burned down, I would expect to either get a check for the value of my car, if the shop's insurance company declared it a loss, or get my car back plus a check for the cost of repairing the fire damage, so I could take it somewhere else and have it fixed.....I'm wondering if guns, musical instruments, jewelry, and other items of value work the same way, when the repair shop is damaged, or broken into? This is a good question and I don't have a clear answer yet. At the time of the fire the gun was "whole" (all work on it was complete) so I assume the insurance will cover any cost incurred to return it to that state. I'll keep this thread updated as I learn more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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