CZ P-10F vs SIG 320

[Squirrel45]

Hi Everyone, 

 

I will first admit I am a CZ guy, currently run a S2 and Czechmate. I am now looking for a carry optics gun for steel challenge. I see many running the Sig 320, how does the P-10F compare to this platform? 

 

thanks 

Squirrel 

[dansedgli]

It's way better unless you like the weight of the legion grip. 

 

An aftermarket trigger on the CZ has a much shorter reset than a grey guns on the P320. My p10 was more accurate than both my x5's. 

[Rnlinebacker]

If you have bigger hands the p10F fits perfectly. The SIG grip is shorter. Both are fine

[Johnny_Chimpo]

The P-10 grip is weird AF.  No matter which backstrap I use, I cannot get a repeatable index.  It's either OK on the draw and a mess after the reload or the other way around.

 

P-09, yep.  75/SP-01, yep.  Shadow 2, yep.  Glocks, yep.  P-10, pass.

[Squirrel45]

I have run a 320 the trigger felt ok? But to close to the grip, basically the trigger was to far back. Also I was not used to a long reset. I mostly run single actions 1911s, and CZ's.  I will also admit that I have never run a p10. Just seems to be a lot of love for the 320 out there and not so much the p10 . I think I'll need to handle one of these critters first 

 

Thanks for the responses 

 

Squirrel 

[rowdyb]

P10 has less aftermarket is its only drawback. 

I got triggers I liked better in my p10 versus 320. I liked the grip better on the p10.

 

320 I liked the tungsten weighted grips effect and having a much easier parts shopping 

[GeneBray]

If you can find one at a reasonable price, CZ-85 Combat, no longer in manufacture, which is a modified CZ-75 w/o firing pin block, and other additions like ambi safety.  Since that is scarce as hen's teeth, maybe a CZ-75 (note no "B"), you want a CZ-75 w/o firing pin block, maybe not as scarce as hen's teeth but close.  Due to issues with finding 1st 2 on my list, an SP01/CZ-75B/Shadow2 with the Cajun Gun Works trigger mods on 1st two for certain and maybe on the Shadow, and polishing interior parts per instruction readily available on the interweb ( :-)) ).  You can get the DA pull below 4 lbs with ease and SA down to ~1-1 1/2  or less if you want.  I don't own a P10 so cannot comment except I am partial to CZs for the grip and how they point for me.  Since you have and like CZs already, I would lean that way.  If the grip feels as good on a P10 as your other CZs, and the same or better than the 320 I'd lean towards the CZ.  Same with how the gun points.  Both are quality firearms.  I have no issue with Sig.  Far. far more experience with CZs than Sigs.  Tough decision.  Let us know what you decide and how well you like it the new gun.

[Squirrel45]

Thanks everyone for the replies lots of great feedback here.  Another question to add to this... I would only be using this Steel challenge, I would be running around a 80 to 100 pf. Are there really light recoil springs available for this? Would my light S2 recoil springs work ? 

 

Thanks again!! 

 

Squirrel 

Edited July 18, 2022 by Squirrel45

[Squirrel45]

Answered my own question, sort of. I went in Cajun and of course it's a different spring then the S2. However they show a 13lb spring as the lightest will this function some real light duty loads.? Sorry I'm really not familiar w these striker fires

[Johnny_Chimpo]

3 hours ago, Squirrel45 said:

Answered my own question, sort of. I went in Cajun and of course it's a different spring then the S2. However they show a 13lb spring as the lightest will this function some real light duty loads.? Sorry I'm really not familiar w these striker fires

 

You can run Glock 17 recoil springs after you cut off 2 - 3  coils, or Glock 19 recoils springs as-is

[GeneBray]

Certainly yes for the CZs re springs and I assume Sig, but u know assume means. Wolff Springs.  https://www.gunsprings.com
 

best source for springs. Cajun GW &/or CZ Custom too for CZ stuff 

 

I’ve shot 95 gr bullets in a PCC and SP01. Both worked well. Hard to get a PCC that low on PF. Too little powder and risk of detonation….  All the SP01 loads were really soft. PCC super soft. SP01 1000+ and PCC 1200ish. 

[Squirrel45]

1 hour ago, GeneBray said:

Certainly yes for the CZs re springs and I assume Sig, but u know assume means. Wolff Springs.  https://www.gunsprings.com
 

best source for springs. Cajun GW &/or CZ Custom too for CZ stuff 

 

I’ve shot 95 gr bullets in a PCC and SP01. Both worked well. Hard to get a PCC that low on PF. Too little powder and risk of detonation….  All the SP01 loads were really soft. PCC super soft. SP01 1000+ and PCC 1200ish. 

Appreciate it! Thanks

[Squirrel45]

Last question at least for the moment. Trigger pull seems kinda iffy reading about them. Apex trigger kit solve this ? 

[Johnny_Chimpo]

On 7/18/2022 at 1:35 PM, GeneBray said:

If you can find one at a reasonable price, CZ-85 Combat, no longer in manufacture, which is a modified CZ-75 w/o firing pin block, and other additions like ambi safety.  Since that is scarce as hen's teeth, maybe a CZ-75 (note no "B"), you want a CZ-75 w/o firing pin block, maybe not as scarce as hen's teeth but close.  Due to issues with finding 1st 2 on my list, an SP01/CZ-75B/Shadow2 with the Cajun Gun Works trigger mods on 1st two for certain and maybe on the Shadow, and polishing interior parts per instruction readily available on the interweb ( :-)) ).  You can get the DA pull below 4 lbs with ease and SA down to ~1-1 1/2  or less if you want.

 

This is nonsense

 

A decocker makes no difference in a 75's trigger quality.  The decocking lever does not touch the sear ever during the firing cycle.

 

Lack of a firing pin block makes a small difference in how "good" of a trigger you can get out of a 75, and that difference isn't in weight but in reset travel.  That difference in reset travel makes zero practical difference to one's hit factor as splits gain you hundredths of a second while transitions and position entry/exits gain you tenths of a second.

 

Lack of a firing pin block DOES make a difference in a CZ's ability to tolerate being dropped without accidentally discharging.  There is one dead Range Officer that might be here today had that dropped Shadow had a FPB

 

Getting a DA pull below 4 lbs and SA below 1 is doable with a 75BD.  Reset will be slightly longer than in an 85.  But at that point you are bordering on the pistol being unreliable even with the softest primers available and nothing will kill your time gains from a super light trigger faster than repeated failures to fire.  And if you need a trigger that light to make hits count, your problems lie elsewhere.

 

If there is one thing I cannot tolerate is a finicky, unreliable pistol.  I'll take a Glock 17 with a smooth, 4 lb trigger that fires 100% of the time over your ultra light, ultra crisp trigger that needs Federal primers to be perfectly seated.

[GeneBray]

On 7/19/2022 at 4:10 PM, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

This is nonsense

 

A decocker makes no difference in a 75's trigger quality.  The decocking lever does not touch the sear ever during the firing cycle.

 

Lack of a firing pin block makes a small difference in how "good" of a trigger you can get out of a 75, and that difference isn't in weight but in reset travel.  That difference in reset travel makes zero practical difference to one's hit factor as splits gain you hundredths of a second while transitions and position entry/exits gain you tenths of a second.

 

Lack of a firing pin block DOES make a difference in a CZ's ability to tolerate being dropped without accidentally discharging.  There is one dead Range Officer that might be here today had that dropped Shadow had a FPB

 

Getting a DA pull below 4 lbs and SA below 1 is doable with a 75BD.  Reset will be slightly longer than in an 85.  But at that point you are bordering on the pistol being unreliable even with the softest primers available and nothing will kill your time gains from a super light trigger faster than repeated failures to fire.  And if you need a trigger that light to make hits count, your problems lie elsewhere.

 

If there is one thing I cannot tolerate is a finicky, unreliable pistol.  I'll take a Glock 17 with a smooth, 4 lb trigger that fires 100% of the time over your ultra light, ultra crisp trigger that needs Federal primers to be perfectly seated.

Not certain what decocker comment is about.  I never referenced a tactical model which are the decockers.  I measured pull on my CZ with and without a FPB and there is a measureable difference in the pull.  Likewise, by changing the FPBS force either by different spring or cutting coils. The change is small enough that I cannot say I actually feel it in the pull, but it is measurable with a trigger guage.  The trigger pull physically moves the firing pin block lever to lift the FPB which compresses the FPBS.

 

In some dry fire drills, I can feel the the lever lifting the block.  Same in slow fire live fire.  In matches or live fire speed drills, I never feel the lever. 

 

Several years ago I had the pleasure to meeting a talking at length with one of the international competitors competing in Production.  His pistol was a CZ75 SP01 as I recall.  DA pull was just over 5 lbs to comply with IPSC rules.  His SA was at or 1-3 oz over 1 lb.  He said his pistol was 100% reliable regarding ignition.  He was kind enough to let me dry fire in his pistol in the safety area.  His trigger is/was probably the best I've ever felt on CZ75 with little takeup, virtually no over travel, and very short reset.  Much shorter reset than my SP01 which at the time I had not installed hte Cajun Gun Work Short Reset kit. I am certain I was told he did not use Federal primers, but cannot state what brand he is/did use.

 

Regarding your comment on a fatality are you refering to the 2017 incident at Kamloops Target Sports Association in B. C., Canada?  If so, my understanding of the incident is different from what you state.  Not saying you are wrong or I am right.  Just that my understanding is different, if we are referencing the same incident.   

[Johnny_Chimpo]

32 minutes ago, GeneBray said:

Not certain what decocker comment is about.  I never referenced a tactical model which are the decockers.  I measured pull on my CZ with and without a FPB and there is a measureable difference in the pull.  Likewise, by changing the FPBS force either by different spring or cutting coils. The change is small enough that I cannot say I actually feel it in the pull, but it is measurable with a trigger guage.  The trigger pull physically moves the firing pin block lever to lift the FPB which compresses the FPBS.

 

In some dry fire drills, I can feel the the lever lifting the block.  Same in slow fire live fire.  In matches or live fire speed drills, I never feel the lever. 

 

Several years ago I had the pleasure to meeting a talking at length with one of the international competitors competing in Production.  His pistol was a CZ75 SP01 as I recall.  DA pull was just over 5 lbs to comply with IPSC rules.  His SA was at or 1-3 oz over 1 lb.  He said his pistol was 100% reliable regarding ignition.  He was kind enough to let me dry fire in his pistol in the safety area.  His trigger is/was probably the best I've ever felt on CZ75 with little takeup, virtually no over travel, and very short reset.  Much shorter reset than my SP01 which at the time I had not installed hte Cajun Gun Work Short Reset kit. I am certain I was told he did not use Federal primers, but cannot state what brand he is/did use.

 

Regarding your comment on a fatality are you refering to the 2017 incident at Kamloops Target Sports Association in B. C., Canada?  If so, my understanding of the incident is different from what you state.  Not saying you are wrong or I am right.  Just that my understanding is different, if we are referencing the same incident.   

 

If you can't feel the FPB lifter when using the pistol for real, why would you sacrifice the safety margin that comes from one?  The incident I'm referring to happened in either 2020 or 2021 in New York.  One RO dead when a Shadow 2 hit the ground.

 

I call bulls#!t on a CZ that works with any primer you can find with a 5 lb DA and 1 lb SA.  Sorry, not buying it.

 

Quite honestly, what does this trigger fetish accomplish in the big scheme? 

 

 

[GeneBray]

On 7/21/2022 at 10:18 PM, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

If you can't feel the FPB lifter when using the pistol for real, why would you sacrifice the safety margin that comes from one?  The incident I'm referring to happened in either 2020 or 2021 in New York.  One RO dead when a Shadow 2 hit the ground.

 

I call bulls#!t on a CZ that works with any primer you can find with a 5 lb DA and 1 lb SA.  Sorry, not buying it.

 

Quite honestly, what does this trigger fetish accomplish in the big scheme? 

 

 

All I said was that with FPB is I can feel it, without I don't.  And, the FPB does add to the trigger pull since it is the trigger that lifts the FPB.  And, I had measured the difference.

 

Thank you for the information on the 2020 incident.  For some reason, I had forgotten it.  Probably read about it, but late 2020-2021 were a nightmare with wife hospitalized/rehab/skilled nursing from late Dec 2020 to Sep 2021.  Then, a move from our home for 39 of the last 43 years to a new state to be closer to family.  Will throughly review what info I can find.

 

My 4 lb 4 oz DA has not failed to fire CCI/Winchester/Federal SP and CCI/Win SR primers unless I had a high primer.  Tula were a completely different story and why I will not use them in pistols any more, or if I have no choice with a full power main spring.  CCI/Win had a FTF approximately 1 every 200-400 rnds.  Cannot say if the primers there were high or not since they were in competition & I simplely pulled the trigger again and bang.  My comment about the IPSC competitor stated he said his pistol was reliable with "all the primers he used." He did not state what brands.  A big difference from workiing with all pirmers.  I have no reason to doubt the word of the IPSC competitor. And, will not claim he lied or misrepresented his experience.

 

Not certain I understand you comment about trigger fetish.  Some of my firearms are completely stock regarding triggers, others are not.  Those that aren't are specific use where I desire a lighter trigger.  Those that are stock I want stock for specific reasons.

 

Edited July 24, 2022 by GeneBray