Stafford Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 On Saturday, I shot a match with my Shadow 2. No issues running 147 remanufactured ammo. On Sunday, I did a practice session and ran a couple of drills and ran a stage four times with Wolf 115 steel cased. At the end of my second run, I pulled the trigger and felt the action, but the hammer didn't drop. So, I pulled again and it fell. I asked the RO if he knew what happened and he thought I had trigger freeze, but wasn't sure. When I explained what happened, he said I probably didn't go all the way to reset. The next two stages this happened 2-3 times on each run, but I just pulled again and it fired. I can't recreate it in dry fire as the single action is pretty light and drops the hammer every time. If I don't allow it to go to reset, there's just no resistance on the trigger which is noticeable. I definitely felt the trigger pull, but the hammer didn't fall. I'm running a CGW 11.5lb hammer/main spring and a 13lb recoil spring. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulm540 Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 Looks like the steel ammo is the problem. Have you done the plunk test on the wolf ammo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stafford Posted November 22, 2021 Author Share Posted November 22, 2021 31 minutes ago, bulm540 said: Looks like the steel ammo is the problem. Have you done the plunk test on the wolf ammo? No, had three boxes laying around and thought it would be good for the practice session. What would the plunk test reveal for the trigger issue? I thought the plunk test was more about ejection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramnj Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 I would put a 13lb main spring. Problem could be hard primers in the Wolf ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stafford Posted November 22, 2021 Author Share Posted November 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, ramnj said: I would put a 13lb main spring. Problem could be hard primers in the Wolf ammo. That was sort of my initial thought when it didn't fire, until I realized the hammer hadn't actually dropped. If the hammer had dropped and not ignited the primer, then the S2 would have returned to double action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 Was the temperature at the match colder than it has been when the gun shoots well? If so and you have a trigger with the overtravel limit screw you might try backing it out, or the freezer test that folks use to get the overtravel ample on Springfield XD’s, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stafford Posted November 22, 2021 Author Share Posted November 22, 2021 31 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said: Was the temperature at the match colder than it has been when the gun shoots well? If so and you have a trigger with the overtravel limit screw you might try backing it out, or the freezer test that folks use to get the overtravel ample on Springfield XD’s, It was colder on Saturday at the match when I had no issues. It was slightly warmer on Sunday at the practice session when the problems occurred. I have not done any adjustments to the overtravel screw. It is as it came from the factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJB Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 30 minutes ago, Stafford said: I have not done any adjustments to the overtravel screw. It is as it came from the factory. You don't have to make any adjustments yourself, sometimes the overtravel screw will make adjustments on it's own. Take it out and see about reliability then. When you put it back in clean the threads on the screw & the threads where it mounts in the trigger and apply blue Loctite. Ammo has absolutely nothing to do with what you're describing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, BJB said: You don't have to make any adjustments yourself, sometimes the overtravel screw will make adjustments on it's own. Take it out and see about reliability then. When you put it back in clean the threads on the screw & the threads where it mounts in the trigger and apply blue Loctite. I just remove them entirely, never could see any improvement in my bench shooting or USPSA/IDPA match shooting by using them. Your mileage may vary . Edited November 22, 2021 by IHAVEGAS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vtecpaoche Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 It sounds like you have aftermarket parts. Did you happen to install a short reach trigger kit or are your mods just springs at this point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stafford Posted November 22, 2021 Author Share Posted November 22, 2021 2 hours ago, vtecpaoche said: It sounds like you have aftermarket parts. Did you happen to install a short reach trigger kit or are your mods just springs at this point? Parts = Recoil spring, hammer spring, extended firing pin. No work, springs or polishing done to the actual trigger components. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stafford Posted November 22, 2021 Author Share Posted November 22, 2021 Just wondering out loud... when the hammer/main spring gets weak from many rounds of live fire and numerous dry fire pulls, what happens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJB Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 22 minutes ago, Stafford said: Just wondering out loud... when the hammer/main spring gets weak from many rounds of live fire and numerous dry fire pulls, what happens? If it's a lowered mainspring so your DA pull is lower, you can have lite strikes when the spring gets old and weak. You said you had an extended firing pin so this possibility would be greatly minimized with most brand of primers. If you have a factory mainspring that has seen lots of use it'll just keep on lighting off primers no problem. The mainspring is not the first place to look for your issue. For the issue you described, remove your over travel screw for a bit and see if your issue remains or goes away. Go shoot the gun for a while with the screw removed. Don't worry about anything else till you do this. (Trouble shooting 101; start at the most likely reason & do one thing at a time.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stafford Posted November 22, 2021 Author Share Posted November 22, 2021 21 minutes ago, BJB said: If it's a lowered mainspring so your DA pull is lower, you can have lite strikes when the spring gets old and weak. You said you had an extended firing pin so this possibility would be greatly minimized with most brand of primers. If you have a factory mainspring that has seen lots of use it'll just keep on lighting off primers no problem. The mainspring is not the first place to look for your issue. For the issue you described, remove your over travel screw for a bit and see if your issue remains or goes away. Go shoot the gun for a while with the screw removed. Don't worry about anything else till you do this. (Trouble shooting 101; start at the most likely reason & do one thing at a time.) OK, I'll start there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouperMan Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 5 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said: I just remove them entirely, never could see any improvement in my bench shooting or USPSA/IDPA match shooting by using them. Your mileage may vary . Yep, same here! Over time, the overtravel screw divots into the polycoat/finish, and the overtravel stop point becomes different to the point that it doesn't fully break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stafford Posted November 22, 2021 Author Share Posted November 22, 2021 8 minutes ago, SouperMan said: Yep, same here! Over time, the overtravel screw divots into the polycoat/finish, and the overtravel stop point becomes different to the point that it doesn't fully break. I think you just answered the question that I have... If the overtravel screw is working itself out, and that is causing the issue, why does removing it alleviate the issue. Question 2: Will the trigger feel different once it is removed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stafford Posted November 24, 2021 Author Share Posted November 24, 2021 Just removed the screw. I should have tested the overtravel before removing but didn't really think about it. Again, it was fine in dry fire. After I removed the screw, I don't think I could tell any difference in the feel. After removing, I did block the back of the trigger with my index finger and then pull to break and then watched the overtravel. It's not much at all, so I'm not sure I would have even noticed if it had less overtravel previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stafford Posted November 26, 2021 Author Share Posted November 26, 2021 Quick trip to the range this morning. Ran about 75 rounds with no issue, including some mag dumps and double taps. If there's a difference in the feel of the trigger, I'm not able to feel it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouperMan Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 On 11/22/2021 at 3:43 PM, Stafford said: I think you just answered the question that I have... If the overtravel screw is working itself out, and that is causing the issue, why does removing it alleviate the issue. Question 2: Will the trigger feel different once it is removed? The overtravel screw doesn't have a "critical function" to the operation of the gun, so taking it out completely is usually what everyone does. It is just a customized stop point for your trigger so that you don't have to go the extra 1-2mm of overtravel. During competition, the least of my worries is the feel of my trigger over travel. I'm not that good of a shooter to know that minute of a difference in overtravel, either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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