627 38 Super Cylinder Holes/ Moon Clips Fit.

[dpeters]

Hi guys, I just got my new 627 38 super today. I loaded up some ammo so I could take it out for a test drive tomorrow. After I loaded up a couple dozen rounds I decided I should see how the rounds fit in the cylinder and in the suplied S&W moon clips. I loaded up the moon clips, and to my suprize, the loaded moon clips would not fit in the cylinder. After a couple of minutes trying to get the moon clip in the gun, I finally did manage to get the moon clip seated into the cylinder. Once I can manage to get all 8 cartridges lined up with the 8 holes in the cylinder the moon clip drops in pretty easy. On all 3 supplied moon clips the fit was the same. Also, if you drop the shells one at a time they all fall into the cylinder easily. I noticed that the Performance Center did not chamfer the cylinder holes. Should they have? I can not believe S&W would sell a gun that you have to work so hard to get the moon clips in. What am I missing guys? or did S&W make a mistake. I have some HearthCo moon clips on order. Will they make a difference?

Here is a list of some of the things that I checked:

1. Crimp in good.

2. Brass is fully sized.

3. Using RP 38 Super Brass.

4. Using Zero 125 JHP Bullets.

5. Ammo is seating fully into moon clip slots.

By the way, my new gun looks great. The double action trigger seems kind of heavy but the single action is pretty sweet. I am going to send it out to Randy Lee to get a trigger job after I break it in. My new OKO sight is on order and I'm looking forward to getting it to see how the gun groups.

Another rookie quastion here. Can I fire the gun without using the moon clips, or is that a bad idea?

Thanks, Doug

ps. I am a revolver rookie, so maybe I'm missing something obvious.

[SRT Driver]

Firing without moon clips - The moonclip thickness is figured into the headspace dimension. It might not fire or it might fire but it probably won't. The firing pin probably won't reach the primer. I wouldn't fire it.

Try different brass. Some clips are sized for different brass. The TK Custom clips are sized to work with W-W and some others. Check TK Custom for details. I think R-P brass is thick around where the clip rides.

Never used HearthCo clips so I can't answer about those.

Edited November 19, 2005 by SRT Driver

[underlug]

Hi guys, I just got my new 627 38 super today. I loaded up some ammo so I could take it out for a test drive tomorrow. After I loaded up a couple dozen rounds I decided I should see how the rounds fit in the cylinder and in the suplied S&W moon clips. I loaded up the moon clips, and to my suprize, the loaded moon clips would not fit in the cylinder. After a couple of minutes trying to get the moon clip in the gun, I finally did manage to get the moon clip seated into the cylinder. Once I can manage to get all 8 cartridges lined up with the 8 holes in the cylinder the moon clip drops in pretty easy. On all 3 supplied moon clips the fit was the same. Also, if you drop the shells one at a time they all fall into the cylinder easily. I noticed that the Performance Center did not chamfer the cylinder holes. Should they have? I can not believe S&W would sell a gun that you have to work so hard to get the moon clips in. What am I missing guys? or did S&W make a mistake. I have some HearthCo moon clips on order. Will they make a difference?

Here is a list of some of the things that I checked:

1. Crimp in good.

2. Brass is fully sized.

3. Using RP 38 Super Brass.

4. Using Zero 125 JHP Bullets.

5. Ammo is seating fully into moon clip slots.

By the way, my new gun looks great. The double action trigger seems kind of heavy but the single action is pretty sweet. I am going to send it out to Randy Lee to get a trigger job after I break it in. My new OKO sight is on order and I'm looking forward to getting it to see how the gun groups.

Another rookie quastion here. Can I fire the gun without using the moon clips, or is that a bad idea?

Thanks, Doug

ps. I am a revolver rookie, so maybe I'm missing something obvious.

My two 627s and one 27, in .38/.357 came with the cylinders chamfered. The guns are designed to be fired with or without moonclips, and do. Hearthco is the way to go for moonclips, though, in .38 I have found that Remington's tend to be tight. The casing should be loose enough to turn easily when they are in the clip. If they are too stiff, it is a bad fit and the cartridges could be stuck at an incorrect angle. I stick to Starline brass in .38. If you order from Hearth, tell him what brass you are using. The 627 moonclips are much more sensitive to brass than the .45s.

[SRT Driver]

Underlug,

I was not aware that the 627 in 38 super shoots with or without moon clips! The 686 in Super will not.

[AzShooter]

The .38 super headspaces on the case neck since there is no rim. Like the .45 in the 625 you may be able to shoot a few without the clips but some may not go off, especially with the light triggers we have.

Smith does not chamfer all the cylinders and yes, you can expect to pay more money even after you get a Performance Center gun.

Hearthco makes the best moon clips. The brass will stay straight and will help in the reloads on 8-shot revolvers. Try it yourself when you get the new moons from Dave. The Smith moons are sloppy and since the holes on the 8-shots are so close it helps to have the bullets stable before going in. On the 625 the flopping isn't bad because the holes are so large.

Another thing to do is when Randy Lee has your revolver have him polish the inside of your chambers. Doesn't take much but it will improve the speed.

[SRT Driver]

Hey 38 Super revo gurus,

I'm confused!!!

Maybe you can clear up the headspace issue with 38 Super Revos for me. Or all revos for that matter.

I built a 586 with a PC 38 Super 686-6 cylinder. The Perf Center said the head space dimension was taken at the rear without the moon clip. It was .090, if I remember. And the with a moonclip it was around .08 or so. Don't quote me on it but it was close. Measuring the distance between the rear of the cylinder/case head and the recoil plate on the frame.

Yes, the old Autos used to headspace at the rim and new ones at the case neck.

But how does a revo head space at the neck if the cylinder does not have a shoulder in the charge hole like an auto. This leads me to believe that it headspaces in the rear.

How then does it headspace on the case neck if the case neck does not contact anything? Or should I say run into anything.

Thanks!!!

[AzShooter]

It headspaces at the rear of the case only because you are using moon clips. Without moons the cartridge will slip into the charge holes when hit with the firing pin.

[underlug]

It headspaces at the rear of the case only because you are using moon clips. Without moons the cartridge will slip into the charge holes when hit with the firing pin.

And I am sorry for the confusion I caused. I was talking about my .38/.357 .

[Carmoney]

Hold on now.....the .38 Super cartridge is not rimless, it's semi-rimmed. Loose rounds will not fall through the chambers. However, the 627-4 (the .38 Super 8-shot) will properly headspace the ammo only when moonclips are used. Loose rounds will sometimes fire, but not reliably.

Edited November 19, 2005 by Carmoney

[dpeters]

Well, I got my HearthCo moon clips in today. They are very nice but it is still to hard to get the ammo lined up with the cylinder holes. The problem must be that the cylinder holes need chamfered.

Doug

[Shoepop]

Doug, I see from your initial post you are using JHP bullets. I have a feeling if you load up some round nose test rounds they will load much smoother. With 8 rounds flopping around it's very easy to get one that hangs up on the HP nose. Heck, even with a 45 ACP 6 holer it's easy to hang up with A JHP. I also agree champer cylinder is a must do. . Good luck, Mark

[SRT Driver]

TK Custom makes a moonclip checker. It's like a case guage for moonclips.

It looks like a cylinder. You load up the moon clips and drop it in the moonclip guage. And adjust from there.

The other thing is that the moon clips might be too tight. I don't know how others feel but I like a little movement in mine..not a lot.

Also, Thanks for clearing up the headspace question. I thought I misunderstood S&W when I built mine.

[dpeters]

Doug, I see from your initial post you are using JHP bullets. I have a feeling if you load up some round nose test rounds they will load much smoother. With 8 rounds flopping around it's very easy to get one that hangs up on the HP nose. Heck, even with a 45 ACP 6 holer it's easy to hang up with A JHP. I also agree champer cylinder is a must do. . Good luck, Mark

The loaded rounds hang on the portion of the brass that is taper crimped. Not the hollow point bullet. This is why I think the cylinder holes need chamfered. There is simply, "no woble room," the cartrigde has to be aligned perpectly in order to drop in the cylinder.

I think I'm going to call S&W on Monday to let them no my situation. I think if they are selling a gun that takes moon clip's it should not take me two minutes to load the thing.

I plan on shooting RN bullets. The JHP's were all I had on hand.

Thanks, Doug

[Bill Nesbitt]

On my 686x6 38 super I had to go to the EGW undersize sizing die to get my reloads to fit. The rounds would drop in the chambers OK without moon clips but wouldn't drop in when loaded in the clips.

I like the Hearthco clips the best.

[dpeters]

On my 686x6 38 super I had to go to the EGW undersize sizing die to get my reloads to fit. The rounds would drop in the chambers OK without moon clips but wouldn't drop in when loaded in the clips.

I like the Hearthco clips the best.

Wow, that's very interesting. Were you getting the same kind of hang up that I described?

I actually had to lower my sizing die quite a bit in order for the cartridge to drop all the way into the cylinder holes. The funny thing is, I havn't ever touched my sizing die and I have loaded 90,000 rounds through it for the auto open gun.

Doug

[Bubber]

Dpeters. When I first got my 38 super Revo I had to go a little more on the crimp and it made a difference. It meassures .375 inches where the bullet and mouth of the case meet.

[hearthco]

Hi Doug,

Many of the guys with 38 super cylinders have had issues with difficult loading and cases sticking during ejection. If your cylinder is within nominal tolerances you can correct the loading issues with a slight chamfer of the cylinders. Sharp edges will make for difficult loading. I have heard many of the other guys have gone to EGW for u\s dies to solve the ejection problems.

Auto pistols use a different reamer for super than revos. I know as I received one by mistake.

If you continue to have problems with my clips let me know and I can measure the cylinder to see if it matches the numbers if use for the fabrication of my clip.

Dave Hearth

[dpeters]

Hi Doug,

Many of the guys with 38 super cylinders have had issues with difficult loading and cases sticking during ejection. If your cylinder is within nominal tolerances you can correct the loading issues with a slight chamfer of the cylinders. Sharp edges will make for difficult loading. I have heard many of the other guys have gone to EGW for u\s dies to solve the ejection problems.

Auto pistols use a different reamer for super than revos. I know as I received one by mistake.

If you continue to have problems with my clips let me know and I can measure the cylinder to see if it matches the numbers if use for the fabrication of my clip.

Dave Hearth

Thanks Dave, I am pretty sure that there is nothing wrong with your moon clips. The S&w supplied moon clips behave the same way. Your moon clips go in just a little bit easier than the S&W. I am pretty sure now that the cylinders just need chamfered. I will have Randy Lee chamfer the cylinders when I said the gun to him for the trigger job.

Thanks, Doug