E3 loads for IDPA 45 ACP

[BHBret]

I just picked up a pound of E3 after reading all the good news here. Any recommended loads for 230 Blue Bullets out of a S&W 625JM with a 4”. My current load is WST that I’m almost out of and E3 is available (and sounds like it could even be better). I use a  Dillon 550b with a Dillon powder measure (small bar) and have read some have difficulty with consistent charge weights so I will watch for that. 
 

Any help would be appreciated. I’ve Googled a lot (actually Duck-Duck-Go) but am hoping for a more definitive answer. 
 

Thanks!

[Farmer]

I was told to use Clays data and it seems like a good place to start. I tried E3 in my geezer load, (4.5G Clays w/185 Berrys) and it was very similar. Felt “different” but shot well, I just need to play with it some more. It works really good in 9mm light loads and is clean in both. 

[bowenbuilt]

I use 3.9 grains of e3 with a coated 230 grain bullet loaded to 1.250 OAL. This has been a great load for me for many years. Soft, accurate and clean.

[BHBret]

35 minutes ago, bowenbuilt said:

I use 3.9 grains of e3 with a coated 230 grain bullet loaded to 1.250 OAL. This has been a great load for me for many years. Soft, accurate and clean.

That sounds like a great place to start!

[dsa]

I used 4.3gr with a coated 200gr SWC at 1.250.

[johnmyster]

I used 4.3 of WST behind coated 200 gr SWC for 1911s and seems GTG in my 5" 625.  Velocity is right at 165 pf.

 

Now running 4.0 E3 for the same.  Velocity is up a hair from WST depending on temperature.

 

Different bullet than you, but should give you another data point.  Biggest plus is not getting that pungent ammonia smell when shooting.

 

Metering in a dillon drop is good enough for my purposes.  I do have a uniquetek baffle in place.

Edited July 10, 2021 by johnmyster

[BHBret]

Thanks!

[BHBret]

I just got back from the range and tested three different loads with e3 along with my current load of WST. All are through my S&W Model 625 with a 4" barrel and using Blue Bullets 230 grain roundnose. Primers are Federal 150's in Starline brass. OAL is 1.250.

 

The chronograph is a brand new Labradar that I got as an early birthday present from my wife. Woot! Woot!

 

First is my current load of 4.0 grains of Winchester WST.

From Labradar today:

Stats - Average	701.52	fps
Stats - Highest	725.46	fps
Stats - Lowest	664.08	fps
Stats - Ext. Spread	61.38	fps
Stats - Std. Dev	17.51	fps
Power Factor	161
Total number of shots	10

 

This load was also chornographed at the Midwest Regional ICORE and PF was also 161 (I did have the highest PF at the match

 

Same load (4.0 WST) recorded with a Shooting Chrony - June 11, 2020 with an average velocity of 708 fps, SD- 16, PF-163. So pretty close results between the two chronographs.

 

Now for the e3 results. Same bullet, primer, case and OAL.

 

3.3 grains of e3 (this weight of e3 was dispensed from the Dillon powder measure that was set for 4.0 grains of WST....so, volume-wise, 3.3 grains e3 = 4.0 grains WST).

Stats - Average 682.17 fps Stats - Highest 701.92 fps Stats - Lowest 661.58 fps Stats - Ext. Spread 40.33 fps Stats - Std. Dev 13.16 fps Power Factor 157   Total number of shots 9   Four of the 9 shots the PF was below 155, the other 5 were over 155. This is cutting it too close for IDPA sanctioned matches but will do nicely for ICORE.   3.7 grains of e3: Stats - Average 772.77 fps Stats - Highest 809.57 fps Stats - Lowest 756.31 fps Stats - Ext. Spread 53.26 fps Stats - Std. Dev 13.19 fps Power Factor 178   Total number of shots 11     3.9 grains of e3: Stats - Average 794.79 fps Stats - Highest 803.68 fps Stats - Lowest 787.71 fps Stats - Ext. Spread 15.97 fps Stats - Std. Dev 6.63 fps Power Factor 183   Total number of shots 4   Note that all e3 loads were in batches of 12. I rushed some of the shots too soon for the Labradar (you're supposed to wait 2 seconds between shots and I know I didn't wait long enough between some of the shots.   The last load with 3.9 grains only 4 shots were registered. Shot number 5 was a squib that lodged the bullet in the barrel. Luckily I couldn't pull the trigger or cock the hammer. I didn't realize it was a squib. In the thousands of rounds I've loaded on the Dillon 550b, this is my first squib. I've read elsewhere about e3 bridging in powder measures. I'm going to pull the remaining 7 cartridges with e3 and see if there are any double loads.  I could have very easily screwed up while loading and not have it been an issue with the powder measure but this does cause me to pause.  All said, if there isn't a double load (which would mean that the powder didn't bridge) then I will probably start loading 3.3 grains for IRC in September. If I use this revolver in a sanctioned IDPA match I will goose it up to 3.4 grains to give me a little more cushion in the power factor.  The other plus to 3.3 grains of e3 is that if I can find WST and decide to change back, the powder measure is ready to go.   Hope this info helps others.

[Farmer]

Looks like 3.5G of E3 would equal your load of 4.0g of WST. Like your data shows and what I’ve seen, E3 can have low SD’s.  Was your accuracy as good or did you check?

[BHBret]

I wasn’t trying to squeeze out the best groups at 25 yards (off of a rest) but e3 was definitely an improvement after I fired the first 12 rounds of WST. I was actually impressed considering I wasn’t trying very hard. 

[zzt]

I use e3 for 45, 40 and 9mm.  I love it.  It has no temperature sensitivity and exhibits not of the spikeyness of Clays when approaching max loads.  It is also very consistent from lot to lot.  I've been using it since it was released and I've never had to change settings.  It is super easy to get good SDs with e3.

 

As an example, my bullseye load is 3.4gr e3 under a 200 gr for 726 fps with an SD of 4.79.  For some reason I don't fully understand, this load is more accurate than faster or slower loads I tried.

 

Just out of curiosity I'll ask why a 230 gr bullet?  Lighter bullets may hit the hand harder, but muzzle rise is significantly less.  I don't shoot IDPA or iCore, but I'm assuming double taps are part of the equation.

[tomjerry1]

I just chronoed E3 today. 230gr plated round nose, 3.9gr E3, 1.266 OAL, 5" 1911 barrel.

hi-728.25

lo-676.25

av-709

es-52

sd-20.5

pf-163.07

I'm going to reduce the OAL to 1.250 and try to see if/how much it will boost the fp/pf.

 

[bowenbuilt]

3.9 at 1.250 usually gets you considerably over Major when using a coated or lead bullet. With plated and especially with the thick plated i had to step it up to 4.0 to 4.1 to get the same results. Shortening it up to 1.250 may get you closer But for the best ES and SD, at least in my guns 4.0 at 1.250 was the trick.

[BHBret]

I have some additional load data results. All are for 3.4 grains of Alliant e3, primers are Federal 150's in Starline brass. OAL is 1.250.

 

First up is 230 Blue Bullets in my 625JM 4":

 Stats - Average    690.19    fps
Stats - Highest    709.83    fps
Stats - Lowest    670.5    fps
Stats - Ext. Spread    39.33    fps
Stats - Std. Dev    13.69    fps
Power Factor     159     
Total number of shots    12    

 

Next is 230 SNS red coated bullets in the 625JM:

Stats - Average    708.99    fps
Stats - Highest    741.08    fps
Stats - Lowest    681.36    fps
Stats - Ext. Spread    59.72    fps
Stats - Std. Dev    17.42    fps
Power Factor     163     
Total number of shots    12    

 

Note - SNS coated 230 grain bullets are 19 fps faster on average than Blue Bullets. I was surprised by this difference. 

 

Finally, just to see, the last is 230 grain Blue Bullets from a Glock 30S (this model has 3.78 inch barrel with a G36 narrow slide):

Stats - Average    649.41    fps
Stats - Highest    678.67    fps
Stats - Lowest    620.07    fps
Stats - Ext. Spread    58.6    fps
Stats - Std. Dev    20.09    fps
Power Factor     149     
Total number of shots    10    

 

Looking through the individual power factor on the Blue Bullet loads, 3.4 grains is skating awfully close to the 155 PF minimum for IDPA with 5 out of 12 coming in just below 155. Every shot with SNS made PF with 34 grains. 

 

Needless to say, I need a totally different load for the G30S to get to 165 if I used it in CDP....but more than likely I would use it in CCP and am positioned really well since 125 is all that is needed. Also, I'm in really good shape with these loads in the 625JM for ICORE's IRC next month. 

 

Hope all this is helpful. 

 

 

[Farmer]

Did you try 3.5 to see if it covered the low ones? Are you loading these on a single stage or progressive? If on a progressive you may be getting slight variations in the charge and that’s why the higher spreads. Just a thought. 

[BHBret]

I'm loading on a Dillon 550b with a Dillon powder measure. I'm going to try 3.5 next (after the IRC's next month)...or just use SNS bullets instead.