Revolver relevant stage procedure question

[Makicjf]

  Having shot major for the last several months to preserve small pistol  primers; and shooting 2 matches minor and not changing my performance in overall percentage one iota, ive decided to stick with major for Locap Nats.    One of the stages  in the match book is 8 targets in a Flying V.  You engage each target freestyle with one round, perform a mandatory reload, then engage each target with one round  weak hand.    In order to avoid confusion (mostly on my part)  I'll describe how I'd shoot the stage with capacity reload only:

Draw and engage 1-6 with one round freestyle, reload; engage 7-8 freestyle; go weak hand engage 1-4 weak hand, reload, engage 4-8 weak hand.

    According to the stage description, a mandatory reload is required after engaging 1-8.   Does the capacity reload count, or in order to meet procedural requirements, do I need to make a capacity AND a mandated reload:

   Engage 1-6 freestyle, capacity reload, engage 7-8: mandated reload

engage 1-6 weak hand, capacity reload, engage 7-8 weak hand

The difference is a reload and thought flow.    

What will the stage require me to do?

Thanks!

Jason

[pskys2]

Nope don't do it.  You are required to make a  "Mandatory Reload" after engaging all targets once. if you don't you will get 4 procedurals penalties. 

You will have to engage 1-6, reload, 7-8, reload, re-engage 1-6, reload, then 7-8.

Note there should be no penalty for making the last reload normally, i.e. using both hands in whatever method you use, after you start the "weak hand only" portion of the stage.

 

That type of COF is why almost everyone does 8 shot minor.  It's a bummer.

 

Technically it might not be a legal stage as they will be requiring a reload after designating it weak hand only?

 

I'd recommend contacting Troy at DNROI@USPSA.org and ask him if it's legal?  Maybe even review the Rule Book and see if there is a rule you can cite? 

For instance the whole premise of requiring weak hand is that your strong hand is disabled and is not to be used after that point.  I think they relaxed that a little so that it only refers to "shooting with the support of the strong hand which is considered disabled".

 

This one stage may be a valid reason to rethink your plan?

 

Edited April 19, 2021 by pskys2

[MikeBurgess]

13 minutes ago, pskys2 said:

 

 

Technically it might not be a legal stage as they will be requiring a reload after designating it weak hand only?

 

I'd recommend contacting Troy at DNROI@USPSA.org and ask him if it's legal?  Maybe even review the Rule Book and see if there is a rule you can cite? 

For instance the whole premise of requiring weak hand is that your strong hand is disabled and is not to be used after that point.  I think they relaxed that a little so that it only refers to "shooting with the support of the strong hand which is considered disabled".

 

This one stage may be a valid reason to rethink your plan?

 

It appears to be a legal Speed shoot, the rules for Speed shoots are a bit different than regular stages and allow for 8 rounds before and after a reload and one handed shooting 

[Makicjf]

17 minutes ago, pskys2 said:

Nope don't do it.  You are required to make a  "Mandatory Reload" after engaging all targets once. if you don't you will get 4 procedurals penalties. 

You will have to engage 1-6, reload, 7-8, reload, re-engage 1-6, reload, then 7-8.

Note there should be no penalty for making the last reload normally, i.e. using both hands in whatever method you use, after you start the "weak hand only" portion of the stage.

 

That type of COF is why almost everyone does 8 shot minor.  It's a bummer.

 

Technically it might not be a legal stage as they will be requiring a reload after designating it weak hand only?

 

I'd recommend contacting Troy at DNROI@USPSA.org and ask him if it's legal?  Maybe even review the Rule Book and see if there is a rule you can cite? 

For instance the whole premise of requiring weak hand is that your strong hand is disabled and is not to be used after that point.  I think they relaxed that a little so that it only refers to "shooting with the support of the strong hand which is considered disabled".

 

This one stage may be a valid reason to rethink your plan?

 

 

1 minute ago, MikeBurgess said:

It appears to be a legal Speed shoot, the rules for Speed shoots are a bit different than regular stages and allow for 8 rounds before and after a reload and one handed shooting 

That is what I was afraid was the case.     Minor may really be the only option where I can even pretend to be competing, I guess.

Thanks!

Jason

[MikeBurgess]

4 minutes ago, Makicjf said:

 

That is what I was afraid was the case.     Minor may really be the only option where I can even pretend to be competing, I guess.

Thanks!

Jason

if it makes you feel better I once shot El-Prez with a 5 shooter, 5 reload 1 reload 5 reload 1 

[pskys2]

17 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said:

It appears to be a legal Speed shoot, the rules for Speed shoots are a bit different than regular stages and allow for 8 rounds before and after a reload and one handed shooting 

I'm sure it can be justified.  But to set up a COF in a Revolver Division where there is a high chance of seeing a 6 round firearm and requiring an 8 shot weak hand string?  

If I was going, regardless of what I would shoot, I think I'd contact Troy and broach the subject.  

Even though being Freestyle an 8 shot competitor could very well need an extra shot and reload.  So it wouldn't be worth a big brouhaha.

Had a similar COF once and of all things triggered the mag release on my Limited gun and it was a timed event.  So I pretty much blew that string.  Mentioned it around Manny and he queried, "that's why I practice weak hand reloads".  Guess that's one small reason he's a top ranked GM.  To practice it, which I have, and then to be able to do it without thought in the middle of a COF?

[RJH]

Stages like this is why i quit shooting revolver.  After 8 minor and 8 netural was a thing, to be competitive with a revolver, an 8 shooter was mandatory. I  couldn't make myself spend the money on an 8 shooter to shoot against myself 

[MikeBurgess]

1 hour ago, pskys2 said:

I'm sure it can be justified.  But to set up a COF in a Revolver Division where there is a high chance of seeing a 6 round firearm and requiring an 8 shot weak hand string?  

If I was going, regardless of what I would shoot, I think I'd contact Troy and broach the subject.  

Even though being Freestyle an 8 shot competitor could very well need an extra shot and reload.  So it wouldn't be worth a big brouhaha.

Had a similar COF once and of all things triggered the mag release on my Limited gun and it was a timed event.  So I pretty much blew that string.  Mentioned it around Manny and he queried, "that's why I practice weak hand reloads".  Guess that's one small reason he's a top ranked GM.  To practice it, which I have, and then to be able to do it without thought in the middle of a COF?

I didn't say it was a good idea just that it was legal. 

 

We also need to remember that with SS and Production also competing at the match, Revos in general will be a very small percentage of the total shooters and 6 round guns will be an even smaller portion of that. I would estimate that there will be about Four 6 shot guns total in a match of a couple hundred, and of the Revo shooters that could be expected to compete for a podium finish Zero will be shooting 6 shooters so I can totally understand not designing stages with them in mind. 

 

 

[CtYankee]

I had a simsilar conundrum a few years ago. Four targets, two rounds each, mandatory reload, reshoot four targets. With my 6-shot revolver I shot targets 1-3 reloaded, shot targets 4,1,2 reloaded and shot targets 3&4. What the heck! I reloaded twice to everybody else reloading once:  -60 pts for procedurals.  I shoot ICORE now instead.

[matteekay]

On 4/19/2021 at 8:55 AM, MikeBurgess said:

if it makes you feel better I once shot El-Prez with a 5 shooter, 5 reload 1 reload 5 reload 1 

 

It's like running Tick Tock with a major gun:

 

Bang-bang-reload-bang-bang-reload-bang-bang-reload-bang-bang.