Jp Ctr-02 Doubling

[tpe187]

Hi Guys,

Well, I've put about 600rd through my JP CTR-02 in the last month, since I got it. It is extremely accurate and well made. I have gotten several groups of .60 at 200yds using the 69gr SMK and Varget. Average though is more like 1.0 to 1.3 at 200yds. Still, nothing I can complain about.

I have noticed a problem with doubling, that I'm not sure if its me or the rifle. Out of those 600 rounds, most have been at the bench, working up loads. The rife rest I was using was a Lahti Rifle evaluator, so it was pretty solid. I noticed that whenever it does it, it is always on the last two rounds in a magazine. Kind of sucks when your doing group shooting!

I keep the rifle pretty well lubed and have done a general cleaning after about every hundred rounds after the initial break in. I even took the pins and trigger group out and cleaned them. I used the grease supplied with the rifle for the kit and not too much.

My technique for shooting the groups is pull the trigger and hold it to the rear for the follow through. I know that with light triggers, its possible for the rifle to recoil and when it comes back forward to hit your finger and fire again. I'm just not sure if its my technique, the rest and technique or the rifle.

I'll call JP when I get the chance, to discuss with them, but I'm wondering what your thoughts are. Anyone experience this before, with this few rounds through the rifle, or when using a similar technique? Thanks for your thoughts

Tom

[Dan Sierpina]

It seems that your not pulling the trigger deliberately enough. The rifle is bouncing your finger when you just try to get that "light touch" that you do with a bolt gun. Tuned M1A's will do the same thing.

[PacMan]

I have noticed a problem with doubling, that I'm not sure if its me or the rifle.

It's the trigger! I now just started to have doublings with my JP Modular FC unit after about the same round count - most likely caused by the disconnector engagement set screw working loose. I'll need to pull mine and reset/loctite it.

Edited October 26, 2005 by PacMan

[George]

It's the trigger for sure. No way you are bouncing the trigger with your finger unless you have the worst trigger technique I have ever heard of. Sub MOA groups say that ain't so ;-)

Mine just started doubling after 9k rounds the same way. If you are holding the trigger and releasing from reset on the disconnector and then letting it click onto the sear, then the disconnectoor is definitely at fault

Call JP ASAP and have them deal with it for you. It's not something you want to deal with yourself.

[ALRAY]

tpe187,

I stressed out about the same thing when my CTR02 was new. When shooting groups off the bench using a bipod, I would sometimes get it to double. My guess is that I wasn't holding on to the rifle too well worrying about getting that perfect undsiturbed trigger squeeze, and the recoil was just enough to get it to bump fire. (FYI- mine is an 18" ultra lightweight).

I haven't been able to recreate this problem shooting from almost any other position, even now after about 4,000 rounds so I doubt any set screws have worked their way loose.

If you can't recreate the doubling when really holding on to the rifle, I wouldn't worry about the trigger. It was probably you trying to get that perfect trigger squeeze off the bench.

[George]

If a gun doubles under any circumstance, even if it be trigger bump, Houston, we have a problem.

If it does it on it's own, get it fixed. If you are bumping the trigger and it doubles on you even occasionally in a specific circumstance, then get that trigger set heavier so it NEVER happens under any circumstance whatsoever. There is such a thing as too light of a trigger. If your trigger control is poor, don't get a light trigger PERIOD

This is a safety issue of some concern and needs to be sorted out before continuing and just shrugging it off.

--

Regards,

[dirtypool40]

It seems that your not pulling the trigger deliberately enough. The rifle is bouncing your finger when you just try to get that "light touch" that you do with a bolt gun. Tuned M1A's will do the same thing.

I agree. I use this technique and have not experienced "doubleing" a single time in any of my bolt guns. Although I have to admit, it was fairly rare before. More common in the Remington 700's than in the Winni 70's.

[George]

Ahem, A bolt action rifle CANNOT double! It has to have the bolt worked to load another round. You can have a "SINGLE" AD, but not a double, ever.

[ALRAY]

If a gun doubles under any circumstance, even if it be trigger bump, Houston, we have a problem.

If it does it on it's own, get it fixed. If you are bumping the trigger and it doubles on you even occasionally in a specific circumstance, then get that trigger set heavier so it NEVER happens under any circumstance whatsoever.

So should I get a heavier trigger on my CMP Garand that I was able to bump fire? (Lotsa fun by the way)

Tom, do whatever you want. I'm just saying that I realize that in my quest to see how good my rifle grouped when its was new, I may have been holding it in such a way that would allow it to double, or more correcly bump fire while shooting off the bench. That was also the reponse I got from JP. I haven't been able to recreate it since it happened over a year ago so I'm not too worried. And I'm not about to give up my sweet JP trigger pull to potentially avoid a situation that I can't recreate on over 4,000 rounds.

Did you get any feedback from JP?

[George]

If you are doing it intentionally by fanning the trigger, cool. If it suprises you instead of a single round, EVER, then you have a situation and even if it only happened a few times way back, the question I ask is "when will it do it again?". This tells me reset is too light and there is not enough disconnector engagment for safety in the long run.

I shoot my JP triggererd AR's (one Colt lower and one CTR) from the bench, from prone, on bipods and on the mag (monopod) all of the time for precision and almost always barely hold the rifle in place (I use my weekhand under the pistol grip to control elevation and don't even hold the forend) and then just barely squeeze the trigger until it just lets off and then follow through with a deliberate hold right through reset and then release it deliberately to noticeably drop the hammer onto the sear. No doubles, EVER. If it doubles like this, it IS a problem and I would not shrug it off.

The trigger that doubled on me never even burped until it had a badly worn disconnector hook that took over 9k of live fire and 4-5 k of dry fire to get that way. The sear was still fine, it was just the disconnector that wore. I have way plenty rounds on two JP gunsmith type trigger groups and am just starting to work on wearing out my third one, JP triggers don't double unless they are broke or your finger pulls the trigger twice real fast ;-) If it's the former, get it fixed, if it's the latter, make sure you know you are doing it, or stop doing that ;-)

--

Regards,

[tpe187]

Thanks for all the opinions. I would say I am pretty good with trigger control on rifles, but must admit that most of my shooting has been with precision bolt actions. I would also say that I have had it double on me about four times in 600rds. Yes, once when you are not expecting it is too many. I felt like a jackass trying to be cool or something. I am not that familiar with light triggers on semi-autos and its possible that I was concentrating so much on a smooth let off on those few times that I didn't have enough of a deliberat follow through or a good enough grip and the slight recoil forced it back and then forward into my finger, causing the double. That fact that it does this when only two rounds are left, leads me to beleive I see the first three in a nice group and try extra hard to keep the last two in there. Oh well, I'll let it go a little bit and see if its just me.

Now that I have my loads pretty much worked out, I think I'm going to practice off the bench, in alternate positions. I will not be near as precise with the trigger control, so I will see if it ever does it there. If it does, it will go back to JP to get right. I still haven't been able to call them. Work has been a little busy this week. Friday is off though, so I'll see what they think then. Thanks again.

Tom

[PacMan]

Just a quick update, I talked to JP last week and some of the earlier modular trigger units have light disconnector springs. Mine is going back for fixing.