40 S&w Load Report

[cautery]

Ok, here's a brief rundown on my last chrono session for testing load workup:

Pistol: Glock 35

Barrel: Storm Lake (stock)

From a Ransom rest using the PACT Pro Chrono

Temp: 85F; Humidity: 64%

Load #1: Winchester brass, WSP primer, VV N340 powder, Precision Delta 180gr FMJ (new profile RNFP)

Charge 5.4gr

OAL 1.126"

SD 13.1FPS (4 rds)

CV 1.4%

MAD 9.6 FPS

CV 1.0%

AV 928.6 FPS

ES 29.1 FPS

High 946.4 FPS

Low 917.3 FPS

Load #2 Same as above

Charge 5.5gr

OAL 1.126"

SD 21.5 FPS (9rds)

CV 2.3%

MAD 18.5 FPS

CV 2.0%

AV 947.3 FPS

ES 55.4FPS

High 972.4 FPS

Low 917.0 FPS

I'm going to try again tomorrow hopefully, using the 5.5gr. load.

Question: Can I assume that the AV Velocity will rise as the temperature drops this winter? I'll be starting over when my new barrel arrives, using new brass, short lead, 0.001-0.002" headspacing. I'll be reporting group sizes for the chrono groups as well.

Edited October 6, 2005 by cautery

[Carlos]

Good info. Why so short OAL? I believe the manuals state that the MINIMUM OAL is 1.126" - however, that is not the recommended nor the most safe OAL. I would go out to at least 1.135" with a bullet that heavy. Please keep the info coming.

[cautery]

Actually, that 0.001" OVER the published data OAL in the Sierra manual for a 180gr HP...

I used that OAL to compare the results to the G22 data I had from a while back with the same componnents (except using MG 180 gr.)

I measured the max OAL in my Glock mags today at 1.150, so I may experiment with longer OALs now... However, when the new barrel gets here, I think a zero bullet jump OAL will be right at 1.135 as you quoted.

I plan to work up a 180 load and a 165 load using the appropriate VV powder for each.

[chp5]

I also load my Glock rounds to 1.125 OAL.

[ChuckS]

Ok, here's a brief rundown on my last chrono session for testing load workup:

Pistol: Gock 35

-- snip ---

Cautery,

Thanks for sharing this info. Very interesting. I do have a couple of questions though:

1) Have you done any work with N-320?

2) Isn't "Gock" a Klingon food item?

[vluc]

2) Isn't "Gock" a Klingon food item? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

no, that's Gack....

[ChuckS]

2) Isn't "Gock" a Klingon food item? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

no, that's Gack....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I didn't download the Klingon spell check app.

ghuy'cha',

Chuck

[cautery]

Chuck,

Nope... Haven't tried VV N-320 yet. Since I will most likely be using it in my open pistol next year, I hope to get some soon and play with it for to see if a load can be worked up in this Limited G-35 using both 180gr and/or 165gr. I have seen data for 180gr .40cal with N-320, but it generally has a much longer OAL of 1.2+. I'd like to see if it can be done safely at 1.150".

Why? Mostly just to see if a safe, shootable load can be worked up using the same powder I most likely will use in the open pistol... I'd rather buy one huge bulk amount of powder for all of next season, rather than 2 smaller orders...

Oh, and sorry about the typos... I was trying to type AND do a board updat on a friends UBBS-based Forums....

TTYL,

[38superman]

I find this very interesting because it is almost the same load I shoot in my SVI, except I shoot a heavier bullet and longer oal.

It is a load suggested to me by Mark Agerholm from the Infinity shooting team.

200 gr Montana Gold at 1.175" oal.

5.4 gr. Viht 340

WSP primer

Winchester or Starline Brass

This load is very accurate, burns clean and (by my CED chrono) runs at about 860 fps for a 172 power factor.

I try to hold my pf to at least 170 to account for variance in temps, different chronographs, etc.

This same load chronographed at 875 last year at the Fla Open and came up at 826.5 at Nationals. That is a swing from 175 pf down to 165.3 pf.

Allow yourself a litte margin for error or you will run into trouble sooner or later.

K'm Plaa

Tls

[cautery]

Thanks tlshores....

Yeah... I'm trying to decide if I want to work up one load that "works acceptably" for all seasons/temps/etc. Or try to tailor one to say "Winter Load" and "Summer Load"...

IF it was back in the middle of the Summer, AND I had my Limited pistol completed, I'd do the "one load" thing... but since I'm headed into winter, I may do the "two (or more) load" thing.

The VV N340 is VERY consistent in my experience. When used in a pistol with a properly fitted barrel, et al., the accuracy is awesome... even in a Glock.

[boo radley]

Chuck,

Nope...  Haven't tried VV N-320 yet.  Since I will most likely be using it in my open pistol next year, I hope to get some soon and play with it for to see if a load can be worked up in this Limited G-35 using both 180gr and/or 165gr.

TTYL,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have now shot over 2k rounds out of my G35 using Zero 180gr JHP's loaded to 1.142 over 4.2 (practice) to 4.5gr of VV320. 4.5grs from the factory barrel makes 171PF.

Just another data point -- I find this a fairly soft-shooting load, even at major, and have no desire to do any more experimentation, except to see how low I could go for a minor loading, and still maintain accuracy.

[cautery]

THANKS boo!!! That gives me a starting place for working up an N-320 load... I'm shooting an aftermarket barrel, so the pressures might be a bit higher, but the chamber is tighter.... I'll start low and work up. And I CAN go to 1.150 OAL it appears...

Maybe I'll start low and long, and take the powder up and OAl down (not at the same time of course) til I find the "best" load for my barrel/chamber.

Thanks again...

[Carlos]

"I think a zero bullet jump OAL will be right at 1.135 as you quoted."

The rifling in a Glock is a long ways out there. Throat is very very long. How long? While you should never try this yourself, I have fired .40 ammo loaded with 180s loaded to 1.200" OAL (Zero JHP & Star FMJ) out of a Glock. You can only fit two or possibly three in a magazing of a G22 but they fit the chamber/barrel & fire fine w/o touching the rifling (yes, I checked 1st before pulling that trigger). Where is the rifling in a STOCK glock barrel? Someplace beyond 1.200" I'd imagine. Try this same stunt with a different brand .40 or with an aftermarket Glock barrel & you may well end up injured (as will your .40).

-as posted above, the Magazine limit on OAL for a Glock is around 1.150 to 1.160" depending on the bullet & individual Glock magazine.

Rudy Waldinger, former member of the Austrian National Glock Team (betcha didn't know Rudy was a Glockman before coming to the US) advised me that Glocks "prefer" a longer OAL for best feeding. Thus, I rarely if ever load shorter than 1.135" and usually load closer to 1.150". If you attempt N320, do not load any shorter than 1.150".

Thanks again & keep the info coming (typos & all).

Edited October 6, 2005 by Carlos

[scooterj]

"Just another data point -- I find this a fairly soft-shooting load, even at major, and have no desire to do any more experimentation, except to see how low I could go for a minor loading, and still maintain accuracy"

Boo, if you load low minor with n320 in .40, it WILL be dirty. There will also be lots of unburnt powder all over your arms. Tightgroup is much better for minor loads.

[cautery]

"I think a zero bullet jump OAL will be right at 1.135 as you quoted."

The rifling in a Glock is a long ways out there. Throat is very very long. How long? While you should never try this yourself, I have fired .40 ammo loaded with 180s loaded to 1.200" OAL (Zero JHP & Star FMJ) out of a Glock. You can only fit two or possibly three in a magazing of a G22 but they fit the chamber/barrel & fire fine w/o touching the rifling (yes, I checked 1st before pulling that trigger). Where is the rifling in a STOCK glock barrel? Someplace beyond 1.200" I'd imagine.  Try this same stunt with a different brand .40 or with an aftermarket Glock barrel & you may well end up injured (as will your .40).

-as posted above, the Magazine limit on OAL for a Glock is around 1.150 to 1.160" depending on the bullet & individual Glock magazine.

Rudy Waldinger, former member of the Austrian National Glock Team (betcha didn't know Rudy was a Glockman before coming to the US) advised me that Glocks "prefer" a longer OAL for best feeding. Thus, I rarely if ever load shorter than 1.135" and usually load closer to 1.150". If you attempt N320, do not load any shorter than 1.150".

Thanks again & keep the info coming (typos & all).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Carlos,

Thanks for the caution, but I am pretty well aware of what I am doing. I have never measured the OAL to rifling contact on a Glock stock barrel, but the stock KKM G22 barrel has a 0.105" lead which translates to a 1.301" OAl to rifling contact usinf MG 180gr CMJ...

I have a custom finish reamer that I use to cut barrels for zero bullet jump. The reamer (and hence the chamber) has a much abbreviated lead spec. I have an article on my website discussing the results of my testing on my 1st prototype...

I don't load to ZERO bullet jump, because of reliability standpoint, but I have loaded to less than 0.005" and had zero problems. However, I will be starting over now and workign up from the basics as the barrel length and bullet brand/profile have changed. I may well have to have a new finish reamer spec cut for the new bullet to realize a full 1.150 without rifling contact.

In any event... reduced bullet jump (reduced lead) DOES improve accuracyin pistols. I proved that. And I'll be careful...

[Flexmoney]

Carlos,

Gives Clay's website a read. As a dedicated DIY'er, I think you will enjoy it.

I'd really like to see JoeD and Bob H. give it a read and comment on it (should be interesting). But...I am drifting this thread.

http://www.montac.com/glock/index.html

[GuildSF4]

Question: Can I assume that the AV Velocity will rise as the temperature drops this winter?  I'll be starting over when my new barrel arrives, using new brass, short lead, 0.001-0.002" headspacing.  I'll be reporting group sizes for the chrono groups as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I my experience with VV powders (havn't tried 340, have tried several others) Avg velocity drops slightly with temperature.

VV N320 hot (~95F) Avg Velocity ~1040, cold (~32F) Avg Velocity ~1020.

[cautery]

GuildSF4,

Hmmmm.... that's encouraging actually. Except, your temp decrease probably didn't come with a radical shift in humidity or BP? Around here, when the temp goes down, the humidity drops considerably too. I'll just have to play and log... Need to get a set of weather instruments.

[Carlos]

Flex wrote: "Gives Clay's website a read."

Excellent advice! Credit goes to Clay; that is an exceptional website & well worth a thorough visit.

Regards, C.

PS - keep the data coming.

[chp5]

Flex wrote: "Gives Clay's website a read."

Excellent advice! Credit goes to Clay; that is an exceptional website & well worth a thorough visit.

Regards, C.

PS - keep the data coming.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

+ 1 The trigger pull article is excellent.

I've often doubted the claimed trigger pull weights of some DIY jobs.

[GuildSF4]

GuildSF4,

Hmmmm.... that's encouraging actually.  Except, your temp decrease probably didn't come with a radical shift in humidity or BP?  Around here, when the temp goes down, the humidity drops considerably too.  I'll just have to play and log...  Need to get a set of weather instruments.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The humidity was the same for hot and cold test. (Controlled test all done on the same day, cold ammo from Ice chest with water and Ice mixture to maintain 32F, ammo sealed in bag in the mixture.) (Humidity was about 20% on that day.)

Edited October 7, 2005 by GuildSF4

[cautery]

GuildSF4,

Hmmmm.... that's encouraging actually.  Except, your temp decrease probably didn't come with a radical shift in humidity or BP?  Around here, when the temp goes down, the humidity drops considerably too.  I'll just have to play and log...  Need to get a set of weather instruments.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The humidity was the same for hot and cold test. (Controlled test all done on the same day, cold ammo from Ice chest with water and Ice mixture to maintain 32F, ammo sealed in bag in the mixture.) (Humidity was about 20% on that day.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cool test... Did anyone write up an article on it? Link?

Edited October 9, 2005 by cautery

[Exiledviking]

Slight drift here...

I have read that the best accuracy with the 40S&W is with the

165gr bullets. Is this true???

I currently shoot the Steel with the WWB 165gr and I just

ordered up Federal AE 165gr which produces less power.

I am hoping I will have less recoil with the AE rounds.

Any thoughts?

I am stronly thinking of getting set up for reloading due to

the prices of ammo.

Edited October 13, 2005 by Exiledviking