aggie dad Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 I have been wanting to move to a .40 from my 9mm 34 and was thinking about getting a 35, but this seems like an intriguing option. Which KKM barrel do you recommend, the match or 6" match? Also, what do you guys think about using the 20C vs the 20? Thanks, Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 The 6 inch barrel and/or the "C" model would put you in Open division. You probably don't want to be there with this setup. Get the standard G20 and the standard length 40 barrel from KKM and you can play in Limited or Limited-10 in USPSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggie dad Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 The 6 inch barrel and/or the "C" model would put you in Open division. You probably don't want to be there with this setup.Get the standard G20 and the standard length 40 barrel from KKM and you can play in Limited or Limited-10 in USPSA. Thanks Flex, yes, I was thinking lim and lim-10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Production too, yes? 21.3 Replacement barrels allowed provided barrel length is same as original factory standard. Heavy barrels and/or barrel sleeves not allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockclimbg Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Production too, yes?21.3 Replacement barrels allowed provided barrel length is same as original factory standard. Heavy barrels and/or barrel sleeves not allowed. I was under the impression that it had to be the same caliber. Does anyone have any more info on this? The G20 would be a great Production gun in .40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 40sw and 10mm are the same caliber. Although I don't see mention of "caliber" in the production rules anyway. Handgun_15th_2004.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockclimbg Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Does that mean that you can use a 9mm barrel in a Glock 35? I know it isn't the same as a .40 and 10mm but just curious? Thanks Rockclimbg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayoupirate Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 I was told that I couldn't shoot production with my G20 as a 40cal? 10mm and 40 s&W are the same caliber, but not the same Cartridge. One could argue that glock has never produced a G20 in 40 S&W. Hmmmm. Okay, you're gonna force me to get out the rule book and read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glk21C Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 You can use the "C" model in limited, but only the slide. The barrel would have to be non-ported for Limited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltgov Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 (edited) I was told that I couldn't shoot production with my G20 as a 40cal?10mm and 40 s&W are the same caliber, but not the same Cartridge. One could argue that glock has never produced a G20 in 40 S&W. Hmmmm. Okay, you're gonna force me to get out the rule book and read. Flexmoney stated in another thread: In Production, Amidon has given the opinion that Glock doesn't make a G20 in 40...so, that gun is not in Production. In Production, we can shoot 40 through the G20's 10mm barrel, however. I think we can thank the 357 and 38spl for that. Having said that: There is a difference in headspace, but it seems to shoot OK according to some since the 40 will headspace on the extractor. Others however have encountered pierced primers. Edited March 24, 2006 by coltgov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 (edited) Flexmoney said that Amidon said? I don't see what the drama's about. Loading a 180gr .400" bullet to 900fps in the 10mm case will impart the same opposite and equal reaction (recoil) as a 180gr bullet going 900fps in a 40SW case. There is no secret advantage, there is nothing gained except that you don't lose the more expensive 10mm brass. The rulebook states that replacement barrels are allowed. We also have somethng called powerfactor that ensures that all competitors have to manage a specific level of recoil. This should be a non issue. If you were the MD of a major match and were "alerted" to someone using a 40sw barrel in a 10mm gun. How would you handle the situation per the rulebook? Edited March 24, 2006 by TDean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 TD, I get you logic. Hell, I agree with your logic. I'd keep typing, but we've been through this before. Why don't you make a run at the head of NROI and see if you can get him to side with your opinion? I didn't have any luck. (Maybe ask for an "official ruling". That would get the BOD a chance to vote on it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Why don't you make a run at the head of NROI and see if you can get him to side with your opinion? I didn't have any luck. (Maybe ask for an "official ruling". That would get the BOD a chance to vote on it.) I don't see anything in the rulebook that would even prompt me to ask the question. I'm allowed to replace the barrel with one of factory length. Done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 Does this mean I don't have any Flex-appeal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Nah...I still love ya...even though you are being a pain in the backside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggie dad Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Production too, yes?21.3 Replacement barrels allowed provided barrel length is same as original factory standard. Heavy barrels and/or barrel sleeves not allowed. Now that you point that out absolutely!!! The idea of going with a 20 is looking better and better. Although I plan to reload shortly, is it possible to fire .40 factory ammo (eg WWB, CCI) from the OEM barrel with out changing any other pieces like the ejector??? No problem feeding from the stock mags?? Thx, Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 I shoot my 1.180" 40 reloads all day long without changing a thing. I've even gottn lazy and stopped by a Walmart on the way to several matches, picked-up Winchester's bulk pack .40sw (165gr) and shoot the heck out of those. No feed probs whatsoever with stock 10mm stuff. I have had a few light hits on the hard Winchester primers though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggie dad Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Thanks Flex/TD/et al, Went to the Gun Show today and picked up a 20 for $499, seemed like a decent price . The fun continues as I decide on the other goodies: KKM or Barsto, tungsten or SS guide rod, Wolf spring (what weight?), Vanek or Sotelo trigger, mag extenders, burried bo-mar/dawson or other??? Any recommendations from the experts out there on configuring this to play from possibly both a limited and production aspect? For example, if I added a Glockmeister magwell, is that easily removed to go back to production? Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 (edited) Most glock magwells are easy on and off. I think we are running a ISMI 13# spring (on their captured stainless rod) in the G20 with the KKM 40 barrel. It will run my mousefart minor loads. The Sevigny/Warren sights look great on top of a G20. Edited March 27, 2006 by Flexmoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryucasta Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 (edited) Gentlemen, I really don’t have a dog in this G20 10mm - 40S&W USPSA Production debate since I no longer compete in that division (I would if it followed IPSC Rules) but what is the problem if you decide to use an aftermarket barrel from KKM that can be used with either cartridge? As far as how best to configure a 40 S&W Long Loaded G20 for Limited competition what I have found that works for me is the following: A. Barrel: KKM 10mm- 40 SW B. Cartridge: 40 S&W OAL 1.190, Montana Gold 180 grain, Powder W231 or N320 5.1 to 5.3 grains C. Trigger: Vanek Custom Trigger 1.5 pound (Limited Only) (Vanek has a production Legal Drop In Trigger for G17 Sized frames that sells for roughly $100.00. I would suggest contacting him at http://www.vanekcustom.com for the G20/21 trigger. I have an associate that’s using the Sotelo trigger http://www.triggerkit.com/ in a G20. He had to shave material off the trigger safety to get the results he liked. By shaving it is automatically disqualified from Production Division due to it being an External Modification) D. Sights: Dawson Precision Sights Fiber Front, Target Rear (Applicable to all Divisions of USPSA) E: Base Pads/Magazine Extensions: Arredondo +5 Base Pads (Limited Only) (I originally ordered the GE kits but due to lack of availability I went with Arredondo. At first I had problems with the provided magazine springs but when I switched to the Para Ordnance P14 springs they worked flawlessly. Depending on the follower I use Wolff or ISMI springs) F. Magazine Release: Lone Wolf Extended Magazine release for the G20/21 (Limited Only) (Originally used the JP Enterprise Magazine release which is what I use in my G17 sized frames for Limited and Open but I found it would cut into my hand so I switched it out for the Lone Wolf model which runs for about $5.00) G. Magazine Well/Weight Add On: Brass Seattle Slug (Stop Gap Measure) (Limited Only) (I have funded and will be receiving this week two prototypes in Aluminum (IDPA/G21 CDP) and Stainless Steel (USPSA Limited/L10) from NHO of their Big Mouth Magazine well for Glock's. These magazine wells have been tested with the Arredondo and Taylor Freelance magazine Base Pads which was my primary requirement. For more details on these magazine wells I would suggest contacting Tom Novak at NHO http://www.novakshandgunneroutlet.com/) H. Guide Rod: Tungsten Guide Rod for G20/21 and ISMI 13 pound spring (Limited Only) (For Production I would remove the cap off the existing Glock recoil assembly and replace the factory spring with the ISMI 13 pound spring) Edited March 27, 2006 by ryucasta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggie dad Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 Thanks for those recommendations Raul and Flex! I don't know how practical it will be to trying to make the gun work for both classes, but in either case it will be better than me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryucasta Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 (edited) You're welcome. With regards to using a G20 for Production I would advise against it. Instead I would recommend using a G17 that in my opinion is the best gun Glock offers for Production Division competition since it can be used in USPSA (USA) and IPSC (Rest of the World) with the advantage in IPSC since they allow the use of the Glock 17 round magazine which is two more rounds than what you'll get in the G20. Edited March 28, 2006 by ryucasta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltgov Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 (edited) You can used a stainless steel rod guide rod in USPSA production provided the weight of your gun doesn't exceet 2 oz over the factory weight. That would be a internal modification which is allowed. In IDPA SSP you have to use the stock plastic guide rod with your choice of spring weight or modified with coils removed. KKM 10mm- 40 SW (10mm barrel converted to 40SW) is a caliber conversion barrel. It doesn't shoot 10mm cartridges. To shoot both you have to use the stock or aftermarket 10mm barrel. The Lone Wolf extended mag release for the G20 is not legal in Production. That would be a external modification. Edited March 27, 2006 by coltgov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggie dad Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 You can used a stainless steel rod guide rod in USPSA production provided the weight of your gun doesn't exceet 2 oz over the factory weight. That would be a internal modification which is allowed.In IDPA SSP you have to use the stock plastic guide rod with your choice of spring weight or modified with coils removed. KKM 10mm- 40 SW (10mm barrel converted to 40SW) is a caliber conversion barrel. It doesn't shoot 10mm cartridges. To shoot both you have to use the stock or aftermarket 10mm barrel. The Lone Wolf extended mag release for the G20 is not legal in Production. That would be a external modification. Good points. As to using the conversion barrel for production, there was some discussion on that above, and don't know how that might eventually play out. Nevertheless, as a newbie, I am planning to start reloading soon, and to your point about using the stock or a aftermarket 10MM barrel, could one use .40 dies to reload 10MM brass for shooting production? I am starting to think that it may be better to keep the 20 as a dedicated limited gun, otherwise this could get expensive Guys, thanks for all the good info! Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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