Interesting Bullet Holes With Berry's Bullets

[mcb]

Alrighty so I loaded my first batch of 40 S&W the other night and everything seemed to go really well with the loading. They also shot really well at the range. One of the load I tested makes major and they all fed flawlessly through my XD and are every bit as accurate as the factory stuff (Rem UMC) I had been using. After getting home from the range I was looking back through the targets from my trip and I notice some unusual bullet holes in some of my targets. My best guess is it seems the plating may be pealing off the bullet between where two riflings have pressed groves into the bullets.

Here's what I was using.

Gun:

XD-40 Tactical (5" barrel)

Load:

This load did not make major but was my starting point. I loaded a lot of this load just to test function. The hotter loads may have exhibited the same problem but I do not have targets showing it.

4.15 grains of Titegroup

Federal Match small pistol primers

Berry's plated bullets 180 grain RS

Chronographed at 888fps

The target (shown below) was white copier paper with card board backer. I have added blue arrows pointed at the unusual bullets holes. What do you guys think is happening here?

Thanks

mcb

[Merlin Orr]

It does look like a regular spacing between the odd shaped tears. Never seen anything like that before....

[eric nielsen]

Plated bullets - they frequently will ____ ___ ___ __ ___ _______ ___ .

Every time I say it, someone vehemently objects. But it keeps happening.

[mcb]

After a little more research I found the following on Berry's website

--------------------

*Is separation a problem with Plated Bullets?

Separation is very rare. Two things can cause a jacket to separate from the lead core: excessive speeds (magnum velocities) and a real tight roll crimp (cuts through the plating). If you'll keep these two items in check you shouldn't have a problem with bullet separation.

---------------------

I was crimping down to 0.421 inches. This seemed reasonable for 40S&W. Maybe I need to back off to 0.422 inches or larger.

Could this plating seperation be dangerous to me or my firearm? Right now they are pretty accurate and of the nearly 200 rounds I put down range there was only 7-8 of these seperations?

Thanks

mcb

[Merlin Orr]

Thread drift...

Great article on your website - ie: Sheeple.... Wow...

[Rising Sight]

Berry's makes a double plated bullet that seems to have cured this problem. I use all the same components that you do except for the bullets that I use are the double plated ones. They shoot fine in my pistol and I have never had any seperation problems.

I do know people that will not use Berry's bullets because of the plating issues that they had. You may want to try looking into their double plated bullets,there are about an extra $1 per 1000.

[SRT Driver]

I had this same issue in my Open gun with WC 124's in 38 Super...but worse.

In this case it was too much crimp.

[Rikarin]

Berry's makes a double plated bullet that seems to have cured this problem. I use all the same components that you do except for the bullets that I use are the double plated ones. They shoot fine in my pistol and I have never had any seperation problems.

I do know people that will not use Berry's bullets because of the plating issues that they had. You may want to try looking into their double plated bullets,there are about an extra $1 per 1000.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I use Berry's and never seen such holes. I crimp down to 4.21-4.22 (depends on what case) .

How do I know its "double plated"? I buy from Graff & Son (cheapest) but not on the box nor website...

[mcb]

Thread drift...

Great article on your website - ie: Sheeple.... Wow...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank Merlin Orr. Someone posted those stories over at http://www.hs2000talk.com and I liked them so much I had to add the stories to my website. With Ohio passing its version of the Conceal Carry laws here a bit over a year ago I have been seriously thinking about getting my CCP. I will probably take the training sometime before the end of the year.

As for the bullets, thanks for all the input guys. I will probably play with opening up my crimp a thousandth and see if the problem goes away. As long as it is not a safety issue I am not too worried about it with only a few per 100 doing it. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

mcb

[Carlos]

Eric wrote: "Plated bullets - they frequently will ____ ___ ___ __ ___ _______ ___ .

Every time I say it, someone vehemently objects. But it keeps happening. "

Eric, I cannot disagree. I am a fan of plated bullets - such as the Speer Gold Dot, the Speer Lawman, Speer/CCI blazer & others including berrys and ranier.

Do plated bullets sometimes tumble? Yep - it happened to me with the old West Cost Bullets - I cannot say for sure why, but it was not excessive crimp or velocity. However, if you find the the right load, they are excellent & priced right.

Kinda a big "if", I know.

I switched to a plated hard cast. There is only one plated hard cast: Frontier. Works for me.

Regards,

D.C. Johnson

[Rising Sight]

Rikarin, I just looked at my box of bullets and they say "double struck". Here is a link to Berry's website. The bullets that have the DS in their description are the ones to use.Berry's Mfg.

[Rikarin]

Rikarin, I just looked at my box of bullets and they say "double struck". Here is a link to Berry's website. The bullets that have the DS in their description are the ones to use.Berry's Mfg.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you Gear Head! I couldn't find Berry's own website myself. Much thanks. Nope my box is not saying double struck. Now I will pay much more close attention to my bullet holes.

Frequent problem I am having is when I'm in hurry loading, I tend to place the bullet not straight enough and ends up having the edge of the case scrape and push the plated copper, making wrinkles.

Otherwise I am having a quite good result of accuracy up to 25yards. I was shooting Sierra at the match but considering the pain of adjusting the settings of gun's and reloader, I am inclined just to shoot Berry's no matter what.

[robomanusa]

I have shot thousands of berrys in 9,40,45 and have had a few occasions where the plating has seperated on all 3 calibers....even when the 9mm is loaded to barely minor pf.

I liked the berrys bullets pretty well, but switched to zero jacketed bullets which are much better quality.....the 40 180gr JHP is is only about .50 cents more per 1000 than the berry's your using now.

[MoNsTeR]

50 cents more? I wish!

(all prices include S&H)

2000 Berry's 180's from Cabela's: $61.84/k

2000 Zero 180 JHP's from Angus Hobdell: $73/k

1000 Zero 180 JHP's from Roze Dist: $77.60/k

Precision Delta 180 FMJ's are only $62.50/k though, those might be worth a shot.

(I am not affiliate with any of these companies, in fact I don't even shoot any of the above bullets!)

[robomanusa]

50 cents more? I wish!

(all prices include S&H)

2000 Berry's 180's from Cabela's: $61.84/k

2000 Zero 180 JHP's from Angus Hobdell: $73/k

1000 Zero 180 JHP's from Roze Dist: $77.60/k

Precision Delta 180 FMJ's are only $62.50/k though, those might be worth a shot.

(I am not affiliate with any of these companies, in fact I don't even shoot any of the above bullets!)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I only checked Berrys website and shootersconnection....on there pricing and was only 50 cents diference for 1000....I didnt take into consideration shipping costs

[ryan45kim]

I had the same problem when I switched over to frontier plated bullets, I got the same holes on my targets as you show in you’re post.

I agree that it is the plating pealing off. I got my Para to shoot these bullets by fire lapping the barrel, once I smoothed out the inside of the barrel I stopped pealing the plating off (I never had a problem with my Bar-Sto, Glock, Kimber, or Wilson barrels). I think the problem was a rough barrel not the frontier bullets.

[Rikarin]

I liked the berrys bullets pretty well, but switched to zero jacketed bullets which are much better quality.....the 40 180gr JHP is is only about .50 cents more per 1000 than the berry's your using now.

I shoot 135gr 40. Don't have much choice.

[mcb]

I liked the berrys bullets pretty well, but switched to zero jacketed bullets which are much better quality.....the 40 180gr JHP is is only about .50 cents more per 1000 than the berry's your using now.

I shoot 135gr 40. Don't have much choice.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why do you use such a light bullet in you 40? Everything I have read it seems that the heavier bullets have a softer felt recoil for the same PF. Is there other reasons to shoot light bullets?

Thanks

mcb

[robomanusa]

I liked the berrys bullets pretty well, but switched to zero jacketed bullets which are much better quality.....the 40 180gr JHP is is only about .50 cents more per 1000 than the berry's your using now.

I shoot 135gr 40. Don't have much choice.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd never shoot a bullet that light in 40, except for maybe if I was gonna try open division and needed to really build some gas pressure for a comp.

[dillon]

I am aware of a .40 cal. S&W auto that was damaged when a piece of plated jacket came off and stuck in the bore. Unnoticed by the Mesa Cop pulling the trigger, the next shot cracked the barrel and slide. Since then Mesa P.D. ended the use of plated bullets for training ammo. When using plated bullets, I suggest you flare case mouths at least .010", and apply NO crimp at all. Adjust the taper crimp die to just remove the flaring only. Both excessive crimp and too high velocity seem to be culprits.

[mcb]

Thanks Dillon, I am definitely going to be backing off my crimp. I was crimping to 0.421 as this is what I was measuring in several factory load I had been using. I think the mouth of a 40S&W is nominally 0.423. I will head that direction and see if it gets rid of the problem.

Someone else mentioned smoothing the barrel. I know my XD is nice but it ain’t no Kimber and so it probably would not hurt to smooth some of the machine marks out of the barrel. Is this advisable and if so how would one go about doing it. Some one mentioned fire lapping.

Thanks

mcb

[kevin c]

With another brand of plated bullet I had a similar problem. These flat nosed bullets would make a star patterned hole on the targets. I dug them out of a new sand berm and confirmed that the plating had peeled in strips back to the bearing surface of the bullets. This only happened with a certain brand of OEM barrel which, in my personal experience (read that as two barrels) were on the low side on bore diameter. Accuracy, as you might imagine, was poor out of those barrels, but fine out of other guns where this peeling back didn't occur.

fwiw,

kevin c.

[mcoliver]

Your bullet needs calibrating using a target with real scoring borders. It's suppose to do that only when it's near the line.

[Gun Geek]

Your bullet needs calibrating using a target with real scoring borders.  It's suppose to do that only when it's near the line.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's what I was thinking this is acutally a feature.

They should call them Hi-Skor and charge more.

[Gun Geek]

With another brand of plated bullet I had a similar problem. These flat nosed bullets would make a star patterned hole on the targets. I dug them out of a new sand berm and confirmed that the plating had peeled in strips back to the bearing surface of the bullets. This only happened with a certain brand of OEM barrel which, in my personal experience (read that as two barrels) were on the low side on bore diameter. Accuracy, as you might imagine, was poor out of those barrels, but fine out of other guns where this peeling back didn't occur.

fwiw,

kevin c.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kevin:

Do you still have any of these bullets? Love to see pics. If you don't have a cam, send them to me and I'll photo and return them.