Flying with firearms

[BigDave]

I am certain many of you here have flown with guns to various events.  I will be flying in a few weeks and need to bring my gun with me.  I have a few questions:

1) I assume that a hard sided case is a necessity.  Is there any one brand you folks prefer over another?  My thought is a Pelican case, but I saw an SKB that was equally as well built.

2)  Once you declare the gun at the airport, can you pack the weapon case inside your larger suitcase, or does it have to be on its own?

3)  Is there a special area where you claim your gun, or does it flow throw baggage claim like "regular" items?

4)  On one airlines web page, they state you can have up to 11 lbs ( 5 kg for you there nort' of da border, eh) of ammunition pack also.  From what I had heard before, I thought ammunition was taboo on an airline.  

Any insight or tips anyone can lend will be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!!!

Dave

[Nik Habicht]

Dave,

Your unloaded (and possibly/probably inspected) handgun will be packed in its case, tagged as a firearm and then packed inside a hardsided suitcase.  If you can buy ammunition at your destination.  Do NOT under ANY circumstances attempt to go through a security checkpoint/metal detector with your firearm in your luggage ----- unless you really want to take a ride in the back of a police car.  Also call your specific airline and ask them to fax you their guidelines on firearms transportation.  Hope that helps.

[Phil Dunlop]

Hi Dave,

I can confirm the 5kg ammo limit.

I don't know if regulations vary internationally, but I just pack my pistol in one of those gun boxes, mines a Berrys Mfg though Uncle Mikes make simular,  I padlock it and place it inside a suitcase.

P.D.

[Lumpy]

Hi Guys,

Here is what I do for WestJet (Canadian Econo Airline). Most airlines have similar requirements.

Handgun unloaded and disabled (Cable Lock/Trigger lock)  in a hard case that is also locked. Some airlines require the bolt to be removed from rifles as a form of disabling. This get's put in luggage bag #1.

Ammunition is normally restricted to 11lbs/5kg for International flights. I believe your allowed 50lbs with Horizion if the flight is within the US including Alaska. Ammo must be in factory boxes or equivalent. DO NOT attempt to ship it loose. I use Dillon ammo boxes with cloth in the top to prevent the ammo from rattling, then duct tape them shut so there is no chance of them coming open in flight. Ammo must be in a seperate bag from the firearm. This gets put in Luggage bag #2.

All this is declared at the airline counter. Now the fun begins, some airlines are pretty easy going some have counter Nazi's that treat you like a criminal from the start. The best way to get through this is to be confident and give the impression like you know what your doing and have done this before.

When I walk of to the counter this is what I say. "Hi, I have a unloaded, locked and hard cased firearm to declare in this bag. In this bag I have under 11lbs/5kg of ammo in factory ammo cases."

Usually at this point they say "Oh, you've done this before!", nod and agree...

Hopefully from there it is smooth sailing. A few points to remember. If you do get a counter Nazi, do not let them :

Inspect your firearm at the counter. Make them take you to a back room to do this. Last thing you need is some weeny in back of the line to yell "GUN!" and then all hell breaks loose. If they insist, you then ask for Security/Police/RCMP to be present.

Some airlines require the firearm to be tagged with a high viz "unloaded Firearm" tag. DO NOT let them put this on the outside of your baggage. This is a big STEAL ME tag as your baggage comes around the luggage thingymabob. The tag is supposed to go on the gun case which can be stored inside your baggage. If they insist, you THEN insist that they insure your firearm at their expense if they wish to advertise it.

If your travelling into Canada/US, please make sure you have your paperwork in order. Normally the counter person doesn't care. DO declare it to the nice Customs person who will be asking you "where are your going?" and "what your are doing?". They normally check your paperwork on the way back so be prepared. Fill out your customs declaration card, and remember to declare your firearm.

It's a fairly easy task to travel with firearms. What I've described is how we Canadians do it.

Please DO NOT take my word on everything typed above, contact the airline your travelling with. Ask them their firearms policy and have them FAX them in WRITING to you. Most counter Nazi's don't know their own rules, so you should.

Best of luck,

Lumpy

F37910

[Chris]

I know this has been asked before, but I'm still not sure about the ammo limit.  The airline we are flying with says 11 pounds.  Is this an absolute limit?  11 pounds of .40 is about 300 rounds.  I'm going to a 250+ round match.  I'd like to have at least 400 for the match but thats over the weight limit.  Are they going to weigh the ammo to make sure its within the limit or will they just say "ok" and let us move on?

Thanks

[ErikW]

Yeah almost all domestic airlines have the 11 lb. restriction, but almost none of them enforce any of their ammo restrictions. They just want to know the gun is unloaded, that there's no ammo in the gun case itself. TWA was the worst; they required extra paperwork for ammo.

I usually just ship it ahead to the hotel or give it to somebody who's driving to the match. I don't want to lug another 11 # around.

A prominent shooter who shall remain nameless mentioned putting above-limit ammo in his (packed) shoes and pockets, etc. to foil international baggage restrictions. I don't think you'll have to go that far.

[EricW]

[Master of the Obvious Mode ON]

The ammunition weight limit is sort of a "see no evil, hear no evil" deal.  If I remember correctly, Delta was very liberal with an 11 *kg* (approx 22lb) weight limit.  The airlines *will* enforce the 75 lb per bag weight limit, though.  (A consideration for people like me who use plastic Pelican cases as luggage.)  

I use a separate Pelican-brand case for ammo.  It's about the size of a briefcase.  Putting 400 rounds in it is no problem.  What the airlines DO care about is that the ammo is in proper boxes with dividers of some type.  No loose ammo in baggies or ammo cans.  Savvy gate agents *will* check.  I nearly had to throw out my ammo in PHX once because I left my surplus ammo in my mags and ditched the boxes.  Lesson learned.

Stick with that & you should have no problems.

E

[Detlef]

For domestic US: Weight-wise the airlines set their own rules. Sometimes some idiot airline employee will tell you that 11 lb (most airlines' rule) is an FAA rule. NOT SO! The FAA has not set rules on ammo weight limit. Gazillions of other rules including you not being allowed to wait in front of the potty in-flight any more, but NOT for ammo weight!

For international: There is a strict 11 lb per passenger weight limit imposed by ICAO. In my experience even less enforced than the US airlines' own rules...

*don't ask, don't tell* appears to be a good strategy for ammo weight in luggage....but be prepared to have any excess quantity taken away from you.

--Detlef

[Chris]

Erik,

You going to Rio Salado?

[Jake Di Vita]

Going down to the IDPA Nats, my dad and I ended up carrying about 1000 rounds in a bag traveling via Northwest, and we didn't have any problems.

[BSeevers]

Matt Burkett has a great article on his website. It talks about being friendly and how that and other factors affect your problems or lack of.

[shred]

Yeah-- I've never been asked about ammo weight, though occasionally about how it's packed. What I tend to do at the check-in counter is check two bags-- one with ammo in it and the other with the guns. I don't even say "I need a firearms declaration tag for this bag" (note the language: it works well) until after the luggage routing tags are printed. At that point, they usually chuck the ammo-containing bag on the conveyor and do whatever fussing they are going to with the gun bag.

Detlef is right that there's no US limit or law, despite what the airlines might say. Alaska airlines allows 40+ lbs, and last time I went Continental, it was 11lbs per gun. The other airlines wimp out and use the international IATA 5kg rule.

Also, if you plan to ship ammo, by far the easiest solution is to go to a friendly gun store and get them to do it for you-- they already have the right boxes and a UPS guy that doesn't care what's in them. Going to the shipping counter yourself can be a nightmare.

[ErikW]

Chris, I don't know whether I'm going to the Desert Classic, but if I do, will you take my ammo?

[Chris]

Erik,

I was going to ask the very same thing.  How strange.

[Mistral404]

I do about four to six flights a month.  I usually pack a firearm and ammo.  Routinely, I am asked to see the firearm to ensure it is unloaded when I leave from my home airport.  When asked about the ammo, I reply that it is a small amount for personal use.  That usually covers it.

HOWEVER, recently in the New Orleans airport I was denied shipping of the firearm.  The personl at the desk was the director for the counter staff [did not remember her real title].  She quoted right off the FAA regulations that the firearm must be in a HARD SIDED CASE AND LOCKED!.  

It did not matter to her that my wheeled bag was locked and the firearm was in a softcase inside the bag.  I remarked that I had over 200,000 miles on the airline and this was the first time anyone had made an issue of it.  She would not budge. She was courteous, friendly but unmovable.

Luckily I had enough time to hump the pistol over to FedEx.  Which was another nightmare; 1) you can not ship and recieve a package to yourself and 2) either the shipper or reciever must have an FFL.  

I still travel with the pistol, and it is encased in a hardsided case.  

BTW, the interesting thing about the NO airport was that for the previous 8 departures, the airport personnel did not even want to see the pistol.  They response was that they would not even know what to look for!!

Bottom line for me nowdays is that I call ahead to the airlines and have them explain their policy to me before I travel with them.

[ErikW]

Yeah make sure you have a hard case for the gun. I prefer to carry my limited gun around in a soft case but I have to break out the Doskocil hard case to fly.

I have this super nice SKB hard case that could be used as the checked baggage itself but I don't use it because it screams "Valuables inside! Guns or camera equipment free for the taking!" So I put the cheapo case inside my shooting bag.

I tape up the "Shooters Tournament Series" steal-me embroidery on my bag to avoid theft. Another drawback to that bag is it doesn't lock up easily or securely.

[EricW]

What Erik said...

A piece of big, cheap luggage or a duffel bag is invaluable to hide your gun case in.  Long guns are a bit tougher to do this with, but it is possible with some specialized duffels and breakdown cases.  What I found absolutely shocking was that the U.S. - based airlines REFUSE to mark your bags for pickup at the luggage office rather than dumping them at the carousel.

In Canada it's a standard procedure.  When I flew into Toronto once, my bag looked expensive, so they simply held it at the counter for me to pick up and paged me.  I didn't even have to ask - they did it out of *courtesy*.  Get back to the U.S. and it's "Yeah, yeah, F-you and your luggage..."  

BTW - Matt Burkett has a great tip about using colored zip ties to "lock" your luggage.  They work kind of like the seal on your power meter, not secure, but a definite deterrent against pilfering.  I'd been doing it for years before I read it on Matt's site this week.  Glad to know I'm not alone in my paranoia

E