Czechmate Minor Question

[BadShot]

Just curious about this.  If you shot minor loads through a Czechmate that was properly set up, how flat would it shoot?  Would the dot stay within the glass on the red dot?  On my Shadow the dot leaves the glass but returns quickly. 

 

Thanks

[kneelingatlas]

The comp works with gas, if you don't feed it enough, it doesn't work as well, so if you load Production-style, minor loads (heavy bullet, fast powder) it will shoot just like a Production gun: soft but bouncy; the flattest Open minor load utilizes the lightest bullet and full case of the slowest powder.  With 10+gr of something like SP2, AA7 or D037.1 under a 95gr bullet the gun shoots very flat and very soft, but still with 2-3 times the vertical displacement which would keep the dot in the glass, that being said, the dot leaves the glass and returns to the same spot faster than my eye can track, so you get the desired result.

 

I've done a lot of close-up, slow mo video of my Open guns firing and determined the old "my gun shoots so flat the dot never leaves the glass" is BS.  Maybe you can't see it, maybe it comes right back, but if you film in 200+ frames per second, fill the frame with the pistol, on a checkered background, slowly tilt the pistol until, the dot touches the top of the glass, then lower it and fire, you'll see how impossibly flat it would have to stay to keep it in the glass.

 

I've only seen one video of a gun which got close and it was a full sized 38 with a huge comp, lots of holes in the barrel and a case full of N105.

[BadShot]

Great answer, thanks. 

[longbeard]

4 hours ago, BadShot said:

Just curious about this.  If you shot minor loads through a Czechmate that was properly set up, how flat would it shoot?  Would the dot stay within the glass on the red dot?  On my Shadow the dot leaves the glass but returns quickly. 

 

Thanks

I shot my friend's recently.  The dot barely moved as it's frame mounted.  I was comparing my shadow CO gun where the dot traverses up and down quite a bit

[BadShot]

52 minutes ago, longbeard said:

I shot my friend's recently.  The dot barely moved as it's frame mounted.  I was comparing my shadow CO gun where the dot traverses up and down quite a bit

So do you think that you would any faster with your friend's gun versus your Shadow?

[longbeard]

1 minute ago, BadShot said:

So do you think that you would any faster with your friend's gun versus your Shadow?

Absolutely.  His Czechmate was like shooting my PCC in comparison.  The dot barely rose and then fell back into the POA. 

With my Shadow, the dot rises, then falls below horizontal and the comes back again.  I'm generally catching it as it comes back up.   I'm still not sure if that's what slide mounted optics do or if I need to tune the gun better.

[Firefight5243]

I get more bounce with minor... dip more then rise with minor. 

[eerw]

On 8/22/2018 at 10:56 AM, longbeard said:

I shot my friend's recently.  The dot barely moved as it's frame mounted.  I was comparing my shadow CO gun where the dot traverses up and down quite a bit

 

 

dot a slide is violent as hell. dot is everywhere.

with frame mount dot seems fairly stable. definitely more consistent in how it tracks.

 

[longbeard]

1 minute ago, eerw said:

 

 

dot a slide is violent as hell. dot is everywhere.

with frame mount dot seems fairly stable. definitely more consistent in how it tracks.

 

I figured as much.  I'm curious how much an 8lb recoil spring would help, and if it would beat up the slide too much.

[eerw]

59 minutes ago, longbeard said:

I figured as much.  I'm curious how much an 8lb recoil spring would help, and if it would beat up the slide too much.

 

truthfully I think its more a matter of grip and getting the gun to return as consistent at possible.

 

 

[longbeard]

2 minutes ago, eerw said:

 

truthfully I think its more a matter of grip and getting the gun to return as consistent at possible.

 

 

Fair enough.  I'm assuming everyone in CO is fighting the same battle.  I haven't spent enough time with it to know much.  It's my plan for when we come inside for the winter.

[eerw]

4 minutes ago, longbeard said:

Fair enough.  I'm assuming everyone in CO is fighting the same battle.  I haven't spent enough time with it to know much.  It's my plan for when we come inside for the winter.

 

just opinion. its harder than shooting open. there is a lot of movement of the dot to deal with, not just a simple consistent pattern  like on an open gun, and you are still down lots of points shooting minor. damn challenge for sure.

 

 

[longbeard]

38 minutes ago, eerw said:

 

just opinion. its harder than shooting open. there is a lot of movement of the dot to deal with, not just a simple consistent pattern  like on an open gun, and you are still down lots of points shooting minor. damn challenge for sure.

 

 

I really enjoy what little I have done, but you are correct.  That dot traverse both sides of the horizontal axis.  I actually catch it on the way back up as opposed on the way down.  Very challenging.

[BadShot]

I noticed that on my Shadow the dot would go up and to the right.  It was very consistent, so no real issue.  This morning I put on some Double Alpha thick grips from my other gun.  They seem to fit me somewhat better.  I tried not to make any other grips changes.  The dot now goes straight up.  It also seems not to move quite so much.

 

The reason that I was asking about this was we only have 2 people shooting Carry Optics at our club.  I was wondering about fitting a Tactical Sport Orange with a frame mounted Delta Point Pro and using 29 round mags to see how much better I would finish in the overall standings.   I don't want to shoot open major.  Just some mental gymnastics....

[kitestir]

At 1 time I had 2 Czechmate. 1 was stock and one I had 2 poppel holes drilled into it.  With minor loads in the stock CM the dot definitely moved more then major loads.  But it felt like a .22.  When I went to the gun with poppel holes and major it shoots flat.  The dot does leave the glass but not much and it returns to poa quickly.  But it is certainly harsher in the hand.  

[kneelingatlas]

23 hours ago, BadShot said:

I don't want to shoot open major.  Just some mental gymnastics....

 

Care to share?

[BadShot]

I have everything down to 1 9mm load and 1 .38 short colt load.  I don't want to venture in to the new arena of 9mm open major.   I really like to shoot accurately and still be reasonably quick(maybe not slow would a better description), shooting minor fits that bill quite nicely. 

 

As I enter super senior hood, the red dot has really been a huge help.  In our overall weekly standings, I average 12 out of 36 shooters.  So I began thinking about a way to improve in the overall standings and still stay within my 9mm minor limits( and looking for an excuse to buy another toy), I starting looking around at other options.  I got to wondering about whether a frame mounted optic and higher capacity mags would make a real difference or not...

[George16]

On 8/24/2018 at 5:22 PM, BadShot said:

I noticed that on my Shadow the dot would go up and to the right.  It was very consistent, so no real issue.  This morning I put on some Double Alpha thick grips from my other gun.  They seem to fit me somewhat better.  I tried not to make any other grips changes.  The dot now goes straight up.  It also seems not to move quite so much.

 

The reason that I was asking about this was we only have 2 people shooting Carry Optics at our club.  I was wondering about fitting a Tactical Sport Orange with a frame mounted Delta Point Pro and using 29 round mags to see how much better I would finish in the overall standings.   I don't want to shoot open major.  Just some mental gymnastics....

 

Heres my TSO with a CZC multi optic mount and a 6MOA vortex viper which helps since my vision is going from bad to worse. 

 

and swaping optics with the new czechmate to check if the Czechmate mount fits on the TSO without any interference with the slide top and there’s none.

 

Edited August 25, 2018 by George16
Spelling

[kneelingatlas]

1 hour ago, BadShot said:

I have everything down to 1 9mm load and 1 .38 short colt load.  I don't want to venture in to the new arena of 9mm open major.   I really like to shoot accurately and still be reasonably quick(maybe not slow would a better description), shooting minor fits that bill quite nicely. 

 

As I enter super senior hood, the red dot has really been a huge help.  In our overall weekly standings, I average 12 out of 36 shooters.  So I began thinking about a way to improve in the overall standings and still stay within my 9mm minor limits( and looking for an excuse to buy another toy), I starting looking around at other options.  I got to wondering about whether a frame mounted optic and higher capacity mags would make a real difference or not...

 

I understand and yes, a dot and a big stick will help a lot.  If you're not going to load major, you don't need a comp.

[abb1]

21 hours ago, kneelingatlas said:

 

If you're not going to load major, you don't need a comp.

But  using a 90m gr bullet with 8.2 gr of powder would PF at 127, and technically that should be a VERY flat shooting load with little recoil, as you have the gases to work the comp.  Would a comp not be ideal for this, especially shooting steel matches?

Edited August 26, 2018 by abb1

[kneelingatlas]

7 hours ago, abb1 said:

But  using a 90m gr bullet with 8.2 gr of powder would PF at 127, and technically that should be a VERY flat shooting load with little recoil, as you have the gases to work the comp.  Would a comp not be ideal for this, especially shooting steel matches?

 

You've got me there, I guess I should have said "if you're not going to load with slow powder, you don't need a comp".