Benelli Shotguns

[tpe187]

Well, in my quest to make my M1100 CM work, I just had to talk to BH. Now, I'm looking at all the Benelli guns out there. From what I can find, there are still plenty of M1's out there with an average cost of $675 New. Used ones go around 600 as far as I can tell. That is for both the pistol grip and regular stock. M3's are not that bad either and seem to have a unique system that I played with a few years ago, but didn't break it down.

From what I have seen on the M1's the extension allows 7 rounds in the tube, one in the chamber and 1 floater, but I"m not sure what the floater means. I believe the M2's did away with this feature.

Are the M2's that much better than the M1's? The cheapest M2 Tactical I could find was $900 new. I would probably just get a Field model in 21" and get the mag extension.

Then I read about the M4/1014. This model really interests me, but 1014's go for around 1200 used to 1400 new. Is there system really that much better? I know that the M4 model will be coming out in several months, so maybe its worth ordering. How is the mag capacity on these. I have read its like the M1 with 7 plus one, but not sure about the floater feature.

So, after all that, if any of my facts are wrong, please let me know. This gun would primarily be a 3 gun shotgun, with a possiblity of some home defense built in there.

With the current market what it is on M1's, is that the way you would go, M1, M2 or M4/1014.? Do you like the pistol grip better or the straight stock. What is max capacity on each model? What mods would you do to the different models? Thanks for taking the time to help me out.

Tom

[BillL223]

I'm shooting an M1 with a 21" VR barrel and Hi-Viz Comp front sight. For Limited or Tactical Class, I'm using a DMW 8 round mag tube. After a year or more of shootng this combo, I would not change anything.

[texasag93]

M1, or M2 if you think the new recoil reduction system on them would be better. Benny seems to like his new M2. I like M1 just fine. I have the 18.5" barrel with rifle sights. 21" might be better, but I will stick with what I have for now.

TXAG

[MikeFoley]

I totally agree with bill223 above, M1 21" DMW no worries.

[tpe187]

Ok, Who or What is DMW. I did a search, but can't seem to find out.

[tpe187]

Ok, Who or What is DMW.  I did a search, but can't seem to find out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok, Got it, Daves Metal Works. Thanks

[MCFooter]

Well, in my quest to make my M1100 CM work, I just had to talk to BH.  Now, I'm looking at all the Benelli guns out there.  From what I can find, there are still plenty of M1's out there with an average cost of $675 New.  Used ones go around 600 as far as I can tell.  That is for both the pistol grip and regular stock. .....

Tom

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tom,

Where can I find a New M1 for $675?

Thanks,

Mike

[tpe187]

If you do a search of Gunsamerica.com, they have a couple NIB M1's for 679. I guess realistic cost if about 725-750 after transfer and shipping.

[Carlos]

As for capacity, why not just add a mag extension?

The AWB is over and I can not find anything in CURRENT law that prevents it. Import - maybe, but I am not an importer nor am I importing the thing. I know about the old "banned features list" for all shotguns - US & imported - but that died last year. Anyone have a CURRENT (as in a post-9/13/04 dated) letter from BATFE on the matter? I do not believe that an 8 shot Benelli is the same thing as, or easily confused with, a street sweeper/D.D.

Thanks, C.

[MCFooter]

If you do a search of Gunsamerica.com, they have a couple NIB M1's for 679.  I guess realistic cost if about 725-750 after transfer and shipping.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I did a search on the Big 3 Gun Auction Sites and to my surprise found a New M1 with a Buy now price of $629 see http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=35422879

The question I should have asked is has anyone seen the popular T3G model NIB for $679? Which from what I have read is the M1/2 Field Synthetic Stock with a 21" VR Barrell ( M1 Model 11025 or M2 Model 11026). I did find one on GA for $999

Can Benny or anyone comment on the ability to cut down the more plentiful 24, 26,or 28" VR barrels. Can it be done cost effectively?

Mike

[benny hill]

For briley to cut & choke w/ 3 tubes is about $175.00. They have the best tubes. Add that to the $700.00 price & now you have $ 875.00 in a M1 when you can get a M2 21" for $950.00

[standles]

Carlos:

Go to the BATF website and look at thier latest guidance letter to FFL.

They are giving 90 days to get in country what they can then its over. You can read the letter for more elaboration but the end is near for imported ak's etc. etc.

I specificaly wanted a mag ext. for my Benelli 1014. Called Benelli they directed me to the letter and said they were not shipping anymore out in order to comply.

Steven.

[Carlos]

Found the lattest FFL newsletter:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/newsletter/0805fflnewsletter.pdf

But the newsletter does not address the new barrel/receiver import ban.

However, I do know of the import ban. My understanding is that there has been a new IMPORT ban of replacement barrels and receivers for "assault weapons" that are banned from IMPORT. The IMPORT ban on certain "assault rifles" has been in place since 1989 (yep - Reagan) Example: FN-FAL/L1A1, AK-47, etc. The new ban on imports of parts includes barrels and receivers. This was done last year. HOWEVER, importers quickly pointed out that they could still import these parts and sell them as "replacement parts". BATFE relented.

Now BATFE have changed their mind. No more rifle barrels or receiver imports. I understand that.

I don't see how that has anything to do with putting a mag extension (for an 8-round tube fed shotgun) or whatever configuration stock you want on a benelli. I am not doubting what Benelli told you, I am just wondering if Benelli is either confused or overly cautious without justification.

Remember when you could look on gunbroker & find Benelli "Pre-ban" shotguns? I believe the law that created the "pre-ban" is now gone & its unclear to me why you could not put a pistol grip or mag extension on any 1100 or Benelli M series gun. Remember, I do not want to import the thing, I just want to buy an M series here and shoot USPSA with it.

[Stuck in C]

Carlos- I wish someone who knows what they are doing would get a definitive answer to your question. I'm not an lawyer nor do I play one on TV. I've read Section 922 of the Gun Control Act (GCA) over and over and even wrote to ATF and recieved a reply, but I'm still not sure. It seems to me that it is technically illegal to put a mag extension on an imported semi-auto shotgun such as the Benelli that holds more than 5 rounds because: 1) It is illegal to import any semi-auto shotgun that holds more than 5 rounds in a fixed magazine because they have been ruled to have no sporting use (only weapons with a sporting use may be imported); 2) It is illegal to convert a weapon to a non-importable configuration once it's in the US. If this is right it is not enforced-dozens (hundreds?) of Benellis are used in 3-gun with mag extensions and I've never heard of anyone being arrested.

The Street Sweeper is banned for a different reason: it was ruled a "dangerous weapon" and therefore falls under the NFA (National Firearms Act) instead of the GCA.

[standles]

Stuck-n-C hit it on the nose. Benelli interpreted it liek that (thier response) and they said they verified that with the BATF.

Solution to the problem would be for Benelli to open a plant in US !

[Carlos]

Standles wrote: "They are giving 90 days to get in country what they can then its over. You can read the letter for more elaboration but the end is near for imported ak's etc. etc. "

Here is the AK barrel/reciever import ban (still think Benelli interpreted it wrong; I also personally believe there is no longer an AWB that controls the mods to a tube-fed shotgun like Benelli).

U.S. Department of Justice

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,

Firearms and Explosives

Assistant Director

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Washington, DC 20226

www.atf.gov

July 13, 2005

OPEN LETTER TO FEDERALLY LICENSED FIREARMS IMPORTERS

AND REGISTERED IMPORTERS OF U.S. MUNITIONS IMPORT LIST ARTICLES

The purpose of this open letter is to provide important information to importers concerning the lawful importation of certain frames, receivers and barrels.

Importation of Frames, Receivers or Barrels of Firearms Under Title 18 U.S.C. § 925(d)(3)

Section 925(d) provides standards for the importation of firearms and ammunition into the United States. In particular, section 925(d)(3) provides that the Attorney General shall authorize a firearm to be imported if it meets several conditions: (1) it is not defined as a firearm under the National Firearms Act (NFA); (2) it is generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes; and (3) it is not a surplus military firearm. However, the subsection further provides that “in any case where the Attorney General has not authorized the importation of the firearm pursuant to this paragraph, it shall be unlawful to import any frame, receiver, or barrel of such firearm which would be prohibited if assembled.”

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has determined that the language of 18 U.S.C. § 925(d)(3) permits no exceptions that would allow frames, receivers or barrels for otherwise non-importable firearms to be imported into the United States. Accordingly, ATF will no longer approve ATF Form 6 applications for importation of any frames, receivers, or barrels for firearms that would be prohibited from importation if assembled. No exceptions to the statutory language, for example for “repair or replacement” of existing firearms, will be allowed.

ATF recognizes that importers have, in the past, obtained import permits authorizing the importation of barrels and receivers for non-importable firearms for "repair or replacement" and may have entered into contracts in reliance upon such authorizations. In order to mitigate the impact of ATF’s change in import policy and to allow importers a reasonable period to come into compliance, ATF will forgo enforcement of this import restriction for 60 calendar days and allow importers holding existing permits to continue to import barrels and receivers for a period of 60 calendar days. ATF believes this time period is adequate for importers who have entered into binding contracts for the sale and shipment of such barrels and receivers to complete the process of importing the items into the United States. ATF will advise Customs and Border Protection that in no event should these permits be accepted to release these items for entry into the United States after September 10, 2005.

Importers are reminded that ATF previously approved permits for non-importable barrels and receivers for repair or replacement only, and this restriction was stamped on the face of the permit. Importers who import such components for any purpose other than repair or replacement of existing firearms, e.g., for assembly into new firearms, will be exceeding the scope of the import authorization in violation of law. If ATF determines, through inspection or otherwise, that an importer willfully violates the import provisions of the GCA, the importer's license is subject to revocation pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 923(e).

Importers holding approved import permits for non-importable barrels and receivers will receive a letter prior to September 10, 2005, advising them that their permit has been suspended.

This determination affects importers as follows:

IF YOU SUBMIT A NEW APPLICATION TO IMPORT FRAMES, RECEIVERS AND BARRELS ON OR AFTER THE DATE OF THIS LETTER, AND THE PERMIT IS FOR NONSPORTING FIREARMS, SURPLUS MILITARY FIREARMS, OR NATIONAL FIREARMS ACT FIREARMS, ATF WILL DENY YOUR APPLICATION.

IF YOU HAVE SUBMITTED AN APPLICATION TO IMPORT FRAMES, RECEIVERS AND BARRELS THAT HAS NOT YET BEEN DENIED OR APPROVED BY ATF AND THE PERMIT IS FOR NONSPORTING FIREARMS, SURPLUS MILITARY FIREARMS OR NATIONAL FIREARMS ACT FIREARMS, ATF WILL DENY YOUR APPLICATION.

IF YOU ALREADY HOLD AN APPROVED PERMIT TO IMPORT FRAMES, RECEIVERS AND BARRELS “FOR REPAIR OR REPLACEMENT,” ATF WILL BE SENDING YOU A LETTER EXPLAINING THAT YOUR PERMIT WILL BE SUSPENDED AFTER SEPTEMBER 10, 2005, AND PROVIDING YOU WITH INFORMATION REGARDING YOUR RIGHT TO SUBMIT ARGUMENTS WHY YOUR PERMIT SHOULD NOT BE REVOKED.

Maintaining open lines of communication is vital to the successful future of ATF’s partnership with the import community. The Firearms and Explosives Imports Branch staff is available to answer your questions about the issues addressed in this letter. You may reach us by phone at 202-927-8320 or by fax at 202-927-2697. Additional information regarding this issue will be provided on our Website at www.atf.gov.

Sincerely yours,

Lewis P Raden

Assistant Director

(Enforcement Programs and Services)