tank guns

[ErikW]

I saw a show on tanks on one of the military-industrial complex cable TV channels recently. The JP rifle compensator is famous for using a tank/howitzer style muzzle brake. I'm wondering what that bulge is in the middle of many tank gun barrels. Some kind of expansion chamber or something. I'm wondering if it has an application for our hand-held pea-shooters.

Also, where can I get some of the powder the French use in the LeClerc? (I think the German Leopard II had a similar muzzle blast.) I want to be the first on my block to have a bitchin' green fireball belching from my comp!

Speaking of propellant, the Brit Challenger (II?) loader was tossing a projectile in the gun breech and following it up with a bag of propellant, like a big naval gun. Kinda weird, kinda slow, but he doesn't have big hot cases flinging back at him and littering the turret floor. It would suck if he has to choose different propellant bags for different projectiles (sabot, HEAT, HE, etc.)

[EricW]

Erik,

I think the propellant bags seem to be the wave of the future.  I'm totally ignorant of things artillery, but I was watching the new U.S. self propelled gun on the History Channel, and it used discrete projectiles with propellant bags.  Loading the gun is totally robotic.  Just pick a projectile and hit "Go"....

[A33435]

Quote: from Erik Warren on 2:22 pm on Dec. 24, 2002

I'm wondering what that bulge is in the middle of many tank gun barrels. Some kind of expansion chamber or something. I'm wondering if it has an application for our hand-held pea-shooters./quote]

What i remember from the lessons in the army long time ago, that bulge holds the device that clears away the smoke after firing. Your hand-held-pea-shooters use "smokeless" powder so i don't think theirs an application. Maybe someone can confirm my idea?

Greetings

Adrie

[Intel6]

It is called  bore evacuator and expells the residual propellant gasses out of the barrel after the round has been fired.  This is to keep all that gas from going into the interior of the tank when the loader opend the breech to eject the AFCAP(sp?)

Neal in AZ

Former S2 6/40th Armor Battalion Berlin,Germany

[Phil Dunlop]

I had a 45 with a similar bulge, never intended it to happen but had no problems with smoke afterwards!

P.D.

[Duane Thomas]

"I want to be the first on my block to have a bitchin' green fireball belching from my comp!"

Several years ago I went to an indoor police range with a friend of mine. We turned off the lights, and, in total darkness, he fired various types of ammo while I stood to the side and watched the fireballs. Not just for amount of muzzle flash but their color. The most injurious to night vision of course is a large white flash. Gun companies have put a lot of money into developing flash retardant powders that not only reduce the amount of flash, but change its color as well. Most ammo with flash retardant powder has a small yellow, orange or red muzzle flash. I don't know what sort of powder Cor-Bon was using in their +P Nine, but it's the only ammo I've ever seen with a small GREEN muzzle flash. Much easier on night vision than anything else.

(Edited by Duane Thomas at 11:42 pm on Dec. 26, 2002)

[lynn jones]

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Quote: from Intel6 on 2:47 pm on Dec. 24, 2002

It is called  bore evacuator and expells the residual propellant gasses out of the barrel after the round has been fired.  This is to keep all that gas from going into the interior of the tank when the loader opend the breech to eject the AFCAP(sp?)

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now that we know what it is, how does it work?

lynn

[ErikW]

Well I'll be damned, thanks Adrie and Neal. I can see how you'd not want all that gas in the crew compartment. They'd probably asphyxiate after one or two firings.

For artillery I can see separate propellant/projectile charges. However, in a tank gun, I'd think they would be more interested in the faster reloading of a single shell. When I'm playing Combat Mission (WWII simulation), I'm yelling at my tank loader to hurry up before he gets brewed up by the enemy.

[Rich Bagoly]

I did not see the show, but it sounds like they are not using a casing , in other words, no brass.  I think its much better not to have to get rid of an expended case, before loading up.

I once heard of a version that they were working on that would fire shells with a cumbustable case, or a special missile from the same barrel.  

[Intel6]

Lynn,

   I was the Intelligence Officer of a tank battalion so while I spent a lot of time with them, that was one thing I never learned exactly how it worked. It is either just a vent that opens after firing or it may have some type of pressurized air?

Rick,

        There are some positives and negatives to having complete loaded rounds or using projectiles with seperate charges.  The M1A2 Abrams uses a complete round that has a case made up of a solid head (rim/base called an AFCAP if I remember correctly) and the sides are made of a combustable material that is consumed upon firing.  After firing you just get a small piece of metal to dispose of making it easier (called a "Tanker Ashtray" by some).  The problem with them is that the rounds can't be handled that much because they have a protective paint on them that can get scraped off and they can become unstable.  Basically once they are loaded into the ammo rack on the tank they have to be fired or they have to be removed and destroyed.        

Also, the capability to fire a wire guided missile directly out of the tube is a capability that the Russians have had for some time.  It is called a "songster" and really added to the leathality of their tanks at the time. With the improvement of the main guns and the targeting systems it was something that kind of fell by the wayside and they didn't put that capability in their newer tanks.    

[38supPat]

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Quote: from Duane Thomas on 6:30 pm on Dec. 24, 2002

"I want to be the first on my block to have a bitchin' green fireball belching from my comp!"

Several years ago I went to an indoor police range with a friend of mine. We turned off the lights, and, in total darkness, he fired various types of ammo while I stood to the side and watched the fireballs. Not just for amount of muzzle flash but their color. The most injurious to night vision of course is a large white flash. Gun companies have put a lot of money into developing flash retardant powders that not only reduce the amount of flash, but change its color as well. Most ammo with flash retardant powder has a small yellow, orange or red muzzle flash. I don't know what sort of powder Cor-Bon was using in their +P Nine, but it's the only ammo I've ever seen with a small GREEN muzzle flash. Much easier on night vision than anything else.

(Edited by Duane Thomas at 11:42 pm on Dec. 26, 2002)

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Have you seen my gun?.....bright white flame in the daylight...gotta love 3N37 in a hybrid barrel

[Duane Thomas]

No I haven't - gives me something to look forward to.

Actually, for all that some people whine about muzzle flash destroying night vision, I like having a bit of muzzle flash. To me, it just makes it easier to see the sights silhouetted in dim light.