9mm stock 2 group size ?

[IHAVEGAS]

What groups are you able to get at 25 yards + - ?

 

Fiddling around for a good reliability / accuracy USPSA load is high on my to do list. I am more particular about accuracy than many say you need to be, so while I've got loads that cycle well I have yet to find one I'm all around happy with. 

 

Any insights on best bullet / powder / oal / pf / etc with that gun would also be real interesting. 

 

Edited October 30, 2017 by IHAVEGAS
.

[kujo929]

I shoot 40 minor so your results may be very different but I haven’t shot a load that didn’t group well in either of my Tanfo’s. Definitely nothing that was not more than acceptable accuracy for a USPSA load. And I tested from as large of bullet as I could go to smallest.


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[bulm540]

1 hour ago, kujo929 said:

I shoot 40 minor so your results may be very different but I haven’t shot a load that didn’t group well in either of my Tanfo’s. Definitely nothing that was not more than acceptable accuracy for a USPSA load. And I tested from as large of bullet as I could go to smallest.


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Kujo, what powder are you using for 40 minor?

[kujo929]

Currently clays. 3.3 with a 165 gr. It isn’t nearly as soft as the 3.0 with 180gr i used for several years but the 165’s with more powder sped up the slide a lot.

 

 

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[bulm540]

1 hour ago, kujo929 said:

Currently clays. 3.3 with a 165 gr. It isn’t nearly as soft as the 3.0 with 180gr i used for several years but the 165’s with more powder sped up the slide a lot.

 

 

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Ok thanks. I will try it again next weekend. My load was 3.2 grains of Leftover aussie clays and it had a little more muzzle flip than my current load of TG at 3.6 grains. I am trying WST this weekend. 

[IHAVEGAS]

16 hours ago, kujo929 said:

Definitely nothing that was not more than acceptable accuracy for a USPSA load.

 

I do not think like that. Have been to matches with 50 yard open targets & 35 yard shots with lots of hard cover & tight zones between no shoots, etc.

 

The best I can get is good enough  , besides the really tough shots it is a confidence boost on the easier stuff. 

[Joe4d]

Well some general things to look at. Lets assume the gun is mechanically capable of the accuracy you want.
What is the chamber like ? Short or long ? closer you are to the lands generally the more accurate on your reloads.
Size an empty case take a bullet and color it with a sharpy, seat the bullet really long now chamber it fully in the barrel pull the brass out and you will probably have to tap the bullet out with a rod,, the sharpy marks will be rubbed off to tell you how deep the bullet set. That gives you an idea of your max OAL with that bullet.. Obviously back it off about 20 thousandths .
Repeat with different bullets. As it will change based on shape.
Also, look at powder that takes up more room and is closer to a max charge,,, you will usually get more accuracy when you get single digit SD in your velocity. Usually more pressure is better. Although I could never get good accuracy out of clays and 9mm. I liked tight group and WST.
Next either slug your barrel to get actual dimensions or experiment with .001 over size bullets. Precision Delta has .356 jacketed, and most cast companies will sell you .356, to .358.
.get 100 of each.
What kinda press ? Dillion tool head moves a bit, you could shim it to take out a bit of slop, this would make your crimps and seating a bit more uniform.
Just a matter of how pedantic you want to get.
Lets see, all same brand brass fired same amount of times.
All brass trimmed 
Id probably stick with midweight.. 124 gr bullets. 

Edited November 1, 2017 by Joe4d

[SoCalShooter69]

4 hours ago, Joe4d said:

Well some general things to look at. Lets assume the gun is mechanically capable of the accuracy you want.
What is the chamber like ? Short or long ? closer you are to the lands generally the more accurate on your reloads.
Size an empty case take a bullet and color it with a sharpy, seat the bullet really long now chamber it fully in the barrel pull the brass out and you will probably have to tap the bullet out with a rod,, the sharpy marks will be rubbed off to tell you how deep the bullet set. That gives you an idea of your max OAL with that bullet.. Obviously back it off about 20 thousandths .
Repeat with different bullets. As it will change based on shape.
Also, look at powder that takes up more room and is closer to a max charge,,, you will usually get more accuracy when you get single digit SD in your velocity. Usually more pressure is better. Although I could never get good accuracy out of clays and 9mm. I liked tight group and WST.
Next either slug your barrel to get actual dimensions or experiment with .001 over size bullets. Precision Delta has .356 jacketed, and most cast companies will sell you .356, to .358.
.get 100 of each.
What kinda press ? Dillion tool head moves a bit, you could shimp it to take out a bit of slop, this would make your crimps and seating a bit more uniform.
Just a matter of how pedantic you want to get.
Lets see, all same brand brass fired same amount of times.
All brass trimmed 
Id probably stick with midweight.. 124 gr bullets. 

 

Excellent post. 

 

High velocity, 124 rn, .356 coated Acme has given me the best along w PD JHP. Single digit spread and deviation. 

[Joe4d]

Assuming short bullet to land movement,, probably a good load. 
Sometimes I think OAL has a bigger effect than people think. Hence all the different bullet profiles. Alot of times in 9mm framed guns mag length is limiting factor  probably why JHP's are known for accuracy,, got more to do with the short distance to lands than the hollow point. A  flat nose, can be loaded to same length as a pointed nose but have a much shorter jump

[SoCalShooter69]

1 hour ago, Joe4d said:

Assuming short bullet to land movement,, probably a good load. 
Sometimes I think OAL has a bigger effect than people think. Hence all the different bullet profiles. Alot of times in 9mm framed guns mag length is limiting factor  probably why JHP's are known for accuracy,, got more to do with the short distance to lands than the hollow point. A  flat nose, can be loaded to same length as a pointed nose but have a much shorter jump

 

JHP accuracy has to do with flight and maintaining stability. Also, OAL isn't "that" big off a factor in accuracy w regular handguns and associated uspsa distances. 

[WJM]

147gr 9mm H&S Bullets, 50 yard 6 round group is 2".

Edited October 31, 2017 by WJM

[Joe4d]

I 100% disagree, have found the exact opposite... OAL matters

[johnbu]

2 hours ago, Joe4d said:

I 100% disagree, have found the exact opposite... OAL matters

 

 

Care to share detail so the rest of us may benefit?

[MemphisMechanic]

13 hours ago, WJM said:

147gr 9mm H&S Bullets, 50 yard 6 round group is 2".

 

It’s official. I quit. I can’t consistently align the sights to do better than 2-3” at 25yd from a rest, let alone at 50 yards.

[drivenagain]

33 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

It’s official. I quit. I can’t consistently align the sights to do better than 2-3” at 25yd from a rest, let alone at 50 yards.

im 44, i can barely see out to 25yds 

[IHAVEGAS]

14 hours ago, WJM said:

147gr 9mm H&S Bullets, 50 yard 6 round group is 2".

 

Interesting! You mind sharing oal & powder data ?

Edited November 1, 2017 by IHAVEGAS

[IHAVEGAS]

12 hours ago, johnbu said:

 

 

Care to share detail so the rest of us may benefit?

 

Hard data is a wonderful thing.

[IHAVEGAS]

1 hour ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

It’s official. I quit. I can’t consistently align the sights to do better than 2-3” at 25yd from a rest, let alone at 50 yards.

 

I am thinking my next gun purchase may be a ransom rest instead.

[johnbu]

29 minutes ago, drivenagain said:

im 44, i can barely see out to 25yds 

I'm 57.... switched to CO. 

 

CO ... stands for "Certifiably Old" !  lol

 

 

but i zero at 38.5 yds. That's  the distance from barn to targets.  resting the mag butt on a pad, i get about 4" groups with a 6moa dot, shaky hands, weak eyes and all.

[drivenagain]

26 minutes ago, johnbu said:

I'm 57.... switched to CO. 

 

CO ... stands for "Certifiably Old" !  lol

 

 

but i zero at 38.5 yds. That's  the distance from barn to targets.  resting the mag butt on a pad, i get about 4" groups with a 6moa dot, shaky hands, weak eyes and all.

i had a glock 17 with an RMR, i loved it for 15yd shots at matches, made me feel like a champ, lol

Im going limited now but i think i will get back into CO, fast

[johnbu]

Funny thing... after 10 months with a dot, I'm waaaaay better with open sights. The dot don't lie, it shows how cruddy my hold, triggering and follow through were.  I've gone from cruddy to mediocre....lol.

[IHAVEGAS]

On 10/31/2017 at 10:51 AM, Joe4d said:

Well some general things to look at.

 

Fiddling with some test loads. Most of us are too cheap (or lazy) to really get nuts about new brass or carefully reconditioned brass and end up using range brass. If I was shooting hundreds instead of 1000's it might be different. 

 

So far with range brass I'm doing better with loads in the 1.120 - 1.135 range than loads with minimal headspace (I can go 1.165 or possibly longer). Am wondering if a bit more set down distance takes away some of the accuracy sensitivity to varied brass manufacturers & condition? Besides better groups in general it appears that I am less likely to have the occasional flier, based upon less than scientific observation. 

 

For what it is worth, 1.12 oal, 147 sns rn, 3.0 titegroup, junk brass, stays nicely inside the head box with both of my guns at 30 yards (butt rested on bench and assuming I am doing my part).  1.135 @ 3.2 titegroup might be about the same, need to do a good bit more fiddling. Edit, measured the last couple groups I shot, 2.5" at 30 and 1.5" at 20. 

Edited November 3, 2017 by IHAVEGAS

[SoCalShooter69]

16 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

Fiddling with some test loads. Most of us are too cheap (or lazy) to really get nuts about new brass or carefully reconditioned brass and end up using range brass. If I was shooting hundreds instead of 1000's it might be different. 

 

So far with range brass I'm doing better with loads in the 1.120 - 1.135 range than loads with minimal headspace (I can go 1.165 or possibly longer). Am wondering if a bit more set down distance takes away some of the accuracy sensitivity to varied brass manufacturers & condition? Besides better groups in general it appears that I am less likely to have the occasional flier, based upon less than scientific observation. 

 

For what it is worth, 1.12 oal, 147 sns rn, 3.0 titegroup, junk brass, stays nicely inside the head box with both of my guns at 30 yards (butt rested on bench and assuming I am doing my part).  1.135 @ 3.2 titegroup might be about the same, need to do a good bit more fiddling. Edit, measured the last couple groups I shot, 2.5" at 30 and 1.5" at 20. 

 

I tried 165s... garbage. Longest o tested was at 1.165.

 

 

[WJM]

On 11/1/2017 at 6:39 AM, IHAVEGAS said:

 

Interesting! You mind sharing oal & powder data ?

3.4gr ETR, 147gr 9mm H&S Coated Bullet, loaded to 1.045".

Similar group sizes with 147gr Extreme if I remember correctly but they are overpriced so I stopped using them.

[IHAVEGAS]

19 hours ago, WJM said:

3.4gr ETR, 147gr 9mm H&S Coated Bullet, loaded to 1.045".

Similar group sizes with 147gr Extreme if I remember correctly but they are overpriced so I stopped using them.

 

Thank you!

 

Have very similar components on hand, will see what happens.