The Grip Area On The Front Of The Trigger Guard.

[mcb]

I have been shooting an XD-40 Tactical in Limited-10. The XD and USPSA shooting is relatively new to me starting both this year. I got my first XD in March and shot my first match in April.

So I have been working on my grip shooting and trying to learn as much as I could from the other more experienced shooters. Well the front of my XD's trigger guard had this slight hook forward on it . As I played with my grip I started hooking my weak hand index finger up there. It felt good, seemed to help control recoil and I thought it was working OK. I have been using that grip probably since the second match or so.

I had not shot at the indoor range since probably May. Well after a few sessions at the indoor range here in the last two weeks just shooting targets I notice that I was stringing my shots to the left. The faster I shot the worst the problem was getting. After passing the XD to a friend to make sure it was me and not a problem with my XD I started playing with my grip again.

Well it basically boiled down to taking my weak hand index finger off the front of the trigger guard and putting in around my strong hand. My groups moved right back to the center even when firing rapidly. Now I’m sure many of the more experience shooters here could have told me this but some times you got to learn lesson the hard way.

Now the real challenge will be figuring out how to break the habit of putting my finger up there before this weekend match!? I see much draw practice and dry firing in the evenings this week. Any suggestions would be great?

Rambling

mcb

[XRe]

Now the real challenge will be figuring out how to break the habit of putting my finger up there before this weekend match!?  I see much draw practice and dry firing in the evenings this week.  Any suggestions would be great?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You've found what a lot of folks have also discovered - finger on the trigger guard lends to that finger pulling the gun offline, and works better when you keep it around the strong hand.

The only solution I know of is exactly what you say above - lots of patient dry fire, working the new technique up

[boo radley]

As another data point, I went through something similar recently changing from a grip in which the strong hand thumb rested below the safety, to one in which I "ride" the safety.

It took me about 6 weeks, but I'm certainly not a super-experienced practical shooter (not sure this is significant, in this instance), nor did I do as much dry-fire practice as I ought (which *is* significant, in this instance).

Over this 6 week period, I shot 3 matches -- during the first, I was right back to the old, familiar grip, and I tried changing it in the match, and this was a big mistake. Second match, a week later, and I simply didn't worry about the grip. I think I *mostly* had the the thumb in the correct spot, but maybe not, on other stages. Third match, I again didn't worry about it, and things were basically grooved.

IMveryHO, it's like changing any habit, and it's just a matter of time. Really feeling comfortable with different golf grip, for example, took me 6 months.

[Pierruiggi]

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6311

[mcb]

Thanks,

I spent a dry fire session practicing my draw and reloads making sure that my weak hand return with the index finger under the trigger guard rather than on the front of the trigger guard. We'll see if it was enough practice to overcome the brain scramble that happens when the buzzed buzzes at the start of a stage.

Thanks Again

mcb

[j2fast]

I experienced the same thing and started playing around with my grip with some success. I feel I've now made strides after picking up BE's book. After adopting most of the principles/techics that BE recommends I feel like my platform is much more stable and the sights track more consistantly than before. I know I'm only about the 5000th person on the forum to say this but I can't recommend the book enough.

[itento]

MCB, interesting you should bring this up. I shot almost fifteen years ago and had to quit until just recently. Back then, index finger on the trigger guard seemed like the way to go ( I even have an old Behlert open gun in 10mm that had a horn built on and checkered . I was looking through an ols HQ Quarterly magazine at some 10mmm loads and noticed that several of the custom guns were built that way. When I started shooting again this year I fell back into the habit of putting the left index finger in front of the trigger guard but after watching one of Matt Burkett's DVDs I wanted to change to a lower grip. It felt a little uncomfortable until my new Limited gun came in ( Brazoz Sti ) with a magazine well. The magwell malkes the lower grip almost natural (bottom of the weak hand rests on the front of the mag well). It felt so good I i ordered one for my other Sti gun and just love it.

[stingerjg]

you could tape you index and middle finger together. It would prob be a bit harder to reload but u wouldnt put your finger on the trigger guard.

[Catfish]

Dittos for what XRE said - I'd just add that when you're dry firing and practicing at home, I'd spend a good deal of that time in slo mo - really give your body a chance to imbed the new grip into your subconscious and you can focus better on your 'new' grip going slow than you can trying to rip a fast draw out over and over.

Just keep it up and you'll be fine!

[Merlin Orr]

Try really putting forward rotation on the weak hand and point the thumb toward the target. No more problem. The finger that used to "fit right on" the front of the trigger guard will now feel very awkward unless it is under the guard.

[brother bad]

Dittos for what XRE said - I'd just add that when you're dry firing and practicing at home, I'd spend a good deal of that time in slo mo - really give your body a chance to imbed the new grip into your subconscious and you can focus better on your 'new' grip going slow than you can trying to rip a fast draw out over and over.

Just keep it up and you'll be fine!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

this the the technique that got me 'over' resting my wh finger on the front of the tg. i've also noticed that if i pay attention to where my wh thumb is pointing, i can pick up my dot/sights much more quickly as the thumb IS pointing directly at the target.

ymmv.

[tightloop]

Sometimes you cannot teach an old dog a new trick...I have always shot that way and have tried to change but after 25 yrs it may be too late...

[Radical Precision Designs]

Sometimes you cannot teach an old dog a new trick...I have always shot that way and have tried to change but after 25 yrs it may be too late...

I was one of "those smith's" squaring and "hooking" trigger guards in the old days. My shop wasn't that far from Austin "Behlert", and we used to compare notes. Even had a jig made up to "heat up and square stretch-shape" those trigger guards.

Recently some shooters having a similar problem have "considered" grinding off the squarednes, and re-shaping to round, so that their fingers would slide off.

But enough has been said in here to justify re-training your habits. Very good thread.

[Sean Gaines]

you could tape you index and middle finger together. It would prob be a bit harder to reload but u wouldnt put your finger on the trigger guard.

I think this would probably be a good idea and dry fire a ton, to get the muscle memory set. I use to shoot the same way, until a master class shooter asked me why I was doing that. I told him I felt like I got more support. He told me to shoot six shots (bill drill) in a row as fast as I could see the sights on the targe. My shots where everywhere and my weak trigger finger was almost off the trigger gaurd after the 3rd or 4th shot. so it opened my eyes, that putting your weak hand index finger in front of the trigger gaurd was not the best way to control a gun shooting multiple shots. In fact if anything it aiding in pulling the shots to the left, like what your doing. I now use the Leahtam/Enos grip which everyone here is talking about. Another thing that helps also is to put some skateboard tape on the underside of the trigger gaurd for more stability. hopes this helps

pk

[Steve J]

I'm in the "one size does not fit all" camp. The index finger of my support hand is up in front of the trigger guard, not to hang on to it or steer, but rather to raise my support hand grip higher on the pistol. Just like with the strong hand a higher grip gives better control with full power loads. I'm talking 180-190 pf. If I have all four down under then I'm pulling the muzzle down. If I lessen the tension then I'm not controling the pistol as well. I have a great NPA... sights aligned with eyes closed. Why mess with what works?

[Singlestack]

Why mess with what works?

Because something else just might work better? Any change to fundamentals will feel strange until it is natural, that does not mean it can not be better.

If I lessen the tension then I'm not controling the pistol as well

Try not "controlling" your pistol. It will return to just as fast and track better. I had to shoot Open for quite a while to convince myself of this.

[Steve J]

Why mess with what works?

Because something else just might work better? Any change to fundamentals will feel strange until it is natural, that does not mean it can not be better.

If I lessen the tension then I'm not controling the pistol as well

Try not "controlling" your pistol. It will return to just as fast and track better. I had to shoot Open for quite a while to convince myself of this.

Don't get me wrong. I've tried a number of different things over the years and my grip has evolved and will continue to evolve and improve, but I prefer a high hold with my support hand. The NPA is better. The front sight tracks better. It's what works best for me and for a few others as well.

[uscbigdawg]

Now the real challenge will be figuring out how to break the habit of putting my finger up there before this weekend match!? I see much draw practice and dry firing in the evenings this week. Any suggestions would be great?

When I was starting out, I did this about every 5-6th draw. One class, to be more fair about 5 minutes, with Matt Burkett fixed that for good. He's got a really, really simple way of fixing this problem. You see, and here's the trick...he takes his knife out and threatened to cut my finger off if I ever put it on the trigger guard again. Not meaning to test him, but the 3-4th draw after that it slipped up there and I got a poke from his Emerson. He warned me again. It never happened again. Problem solved. I subscribe too at times to the brute force method of learning and Matt definitely, so eloquently, fixed that problem in a jiff.

Now I've got all the soldiers close to shooting our grip and stance. And like Matt, when I was working the range this last week and had them all lined up dry firing before qualification, I had my 'instructor stick' (translation: 3 foot long 1/4" diameter dowel) that was effective in "correcting" problems with their positions.

SPC Richard A. White, Senior Medic

249th MP Detachment (EACF)

Camp Humphreys, ROK

[Loves2Shoot]

Jerry Barnhart says in his tapes that even though he does it, he wouldn't recommend anyone else do it. You can take that for what it is from someone who knows a bit about shooting.

My take on it is that unless you have short tendons in your wrist, if you put your finger on the trigger guard you most likely aren't getting your weakhand wrist locked out.