Tanfastic Posted June 29, 2017 Author Share Posted June 29, 2017 (edited) Ok, I shimmed up the primer support bar with a very thin washer, it would barely fit in there. After the change, the Winchester primers are coming out at .010" below flush when I seat them. I measured 5 times, and went back and measured the CCI primer loads which come out at .000" (flush). Also tried a 1.148" OAL load in the newly-reamed barrel and it's free and clear with no sticking at all. I think I'm making progress! Edited June 30, 2017 by Tanfastic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanfastic Posted June 29, 2017 Author Share Posted June 29, 2017 This is the CCI primer seating: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 If your gun doesn't eat those Winchesters like candy with the block removed, I'll be stunned. Looks good. Thanks for measuring before and after. I can now say for certain that the shimmed primer ram does help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanfastic Posted June 30, 2017 Author Share Posted June 30, 2017 9 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said: If your gun doesn't eat those Winchesters like candy with the block removed, I'll be stunned. Looks good. Thanks for measuring before and after. I can now say for certain that the shimmed primer ram does help! Yes for sure, it was -.002 with the winchesters before the shim and -.010 after, so that's pretty significant. I'll be testing at the range today, if I can get it to run well with this ammo now I'll use this ammo this weekend instead of my factory ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalShooter69 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tanfastic said: Yes for sure, it was -.002 with the winchesters before the shim and -.010 after, so that's pretty significant. I'll be testing at the range today, if I can get it to run well with this ammo now I'll use this ammo this weekend instead of my factory ammo. .010 will usually result in a ring or some form of deformation. I'm wondering if your calipers are off... At least you're headed in the right direction. Edited June 30, 2017 by SoCalShooter69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbu Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 1 hour ago, SoCalShooter69 said: .010 will usually result in a ring or some form of deformation. I'm wondering if your calipers are off... At least you're headed in the right direction. Look on the right side, a bit of a ring indent is showing. Looks 0.010" ish to my eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalShooter69 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, johnbu said: Look on the right side, a bit of a ring indent is showing. Looks 0.010" ish to my eye. Ah yes, I had to zoom in. Getting old is a mf'er. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanfastic Posted June 30, 2017 Author Share Posted June 30, 2017 Yeah, the little ring is visible when looking with the naked eye, and the primer is noticeably below flush when looking/feeling it. I measured the CCI primer before the shimming at 0.000" and then measured the exact same way to get the winchester measurement at 0.010" so I think the caliper setting is good. Actually measured 5 different rounds to confirm it since I didn't believe it at first, but it appears to be correct. Now the big question is whether the ammo will FIRE reliably, I'll find out at the range shortly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalShooter69 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, Tanfastic said: Yeah, the little ring is visible when looking with the naked eye, and the primer is noticeably below flush when looking/feeling it. I measured the CCI primer before the shimming at 0.000" and then measured the exact same way to get the winchester measurement at 0.010" so I think the caliper setting is good. Actually measured 5 different rounds to confirm it since I didn't believe it at first, but it appears to be correct. Now the big question is whether the ammo will FIRE reliably, I'll find out at the range shortly! If .010 dpest light, throw your fat down range and go home. Lol I don't think you'll have a single light strike w primers that deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikieM Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) 48 minutes ago, SoCalShooter69 said: If .010 dpest light, throw your fat down range and go home. Lol I don't think you'll have a single light strike w primers that deep. There comes a point where all good things must come to an end, and this is a good example. This primer is beginning to be crushed. When the primer is seated so deep that the anvil is pushed through the priming compound a miss-fire can occur, and as we all know that can mean good-bye stage. My CCIs light off easily at .006 deep. I think he should try for 6 to 8 thousandths, and lose the ring. Edited June 30, 2017 by MikieM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalShooter69 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 57 minutes ago, MikieM said: There comes a point where all good things must come to an end, and this is a good example. This primer is beginning to be crushed. When the primer is seated so deep that the anvil is pushed through the priming compound a miss-fire can occur, and as we all know that can mean good-bye stage. My CCIs light off easily at .006 deep. I think he should try for 6 to 8 thousandths, and lose the ring. My go to is .010" ... have yet to get a failure in over 30k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, MikieM said: There comes a point where all good things must come to an end, and this is a good example. This primer is beginning to be crushed. When the primer is seated so deep that the anvil is pushed through the priming compound a miss-fire can occur, and as we all know that can mean good-bye stage. My CCIs light off easily at .006 deep. I think he should try for 6 to 8 thousandths, and lose the ring. Remember that CCIs are taller than Winchester. A slight indentation like that isn't going to hurt. Many of mine have it with the same 650/shim/Winchester SP combo, and they run like a champ under a 13lb spring with a Fully Uber Optimized(tm) BoloTitanTanfo. Edited June 30, 2017 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP221 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Tanfastic - I'll take the CCI's if they don't work for you. My Cz will pop anything. MemphisMechanic - Do you shoot at MSSA? I have a really good friend that lives in Memphis, and I go to visit him once a year and shoot at MSSA. I know a few of the dudes at that club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanfastic Posted June 30, 2017 Author Share Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) Ok, the verdict is in! Went to the range - all rounds fired in DA, except for about 10 at the end where I was finishing up. All stock Xtreme components: T1 147 gr Competition w/flush Federal Primers - 2 LS / 50 Rounds My 147gr Blues w/-.010 Winchester Primers - 0 LS / 50 Rounds Went back home (range is only 5 minutes away) and popped in all of the PD upgrade springs, 15.5 hammer spring, FPB left out, and without the bolo installed: T1 147 gr Competition w/flush Federal Primers - 19 LS / 50 Rounds My 147gr Blues w/-.010 Winchester Primers - 0 LS / 140 Rounds So looks like that's my setup for the match this weekend, thank you all for the assistance! I'll work on the FBP issue next week and get that resolved, more polishing, and then I'll start experimenting with the lighter hammer springs to see what happens. Now it's time to pop out another 300 rounds of that load so I'm ready for tomorrow. JP - The CCI's are yours! I'll bring them next time we practice! Edited June 30, 2017 by Tanfastic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP221 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 I'm so I'm so glad you got it figured out! Excellent news!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) More proof that primer seating is more important than primer type and gun setup. A Winchester is harder to light than a Federal. No one disputes this... until only one of the two isn't buried in the brass. <Hands a plastic gun owner his first Tanfo> "Hi, welcome to hammer-fired guns. Flush is the new high primer." Edited June 30, 2017 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanfastic Posted June 30, 2017 Author Share Posted June 30, 2017 24 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said: More proof that primer seating is more important than primer type and gun setup. A Winchester is harder to light than a Federal. No one disputes this... until only one of the two isn't buried in the brass. <Hands a plastic gun owner his first Tanfo> "Hi, welcome to hammer-fired guns. Flush is the new high primer." Ha ha! Except for JP, his CZ eats anything, but it's not as cool as my Tanfo! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikieM Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 41 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said: More proof that primer seating is more important than primer type and gun setup. A Winchester is harder to light than a Federal. No one disputes this... until only one of the two isn't buried in the brass. <Hands a plastic gun owner his first Tanfo> "Hi, welcome to hammer-fired guns. Flush is the new high primer." This, I can agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikieM Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 16 minutes ago, Tanfastic said: Ha ha! Except for JP, his CZ eats anything, but it's not as cool as my Tanfo! ;-) Absolutely. But a gun with an 8 pound DA, and a 4 1/2 pound SA trigger pull should eat everything. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanfastic Posted June 30, 2017 Author Share Posted June 30, 2017 1 hour ago, MikieM said: Absolutely. But a gun with an 8 pound DA, and a 4 1/2 pound SA trigger pull should eat everything. Right? Well his CZ has a lighter trigger than my Tanfo does, but GM's get special gunsmithing privileges that us normal humans don't! Ha ha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbu Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 2 hours ago, Tanfastic said: Well his CZ has a lighter trigger than my Tanfo does, but GM's get special gunsmithing privileges that us normal humans don't! Ha ha! I'd bet loads of money that many of the top GM names have worse triggers than MemphisMechanic or me. In fact i know of one tip top GM that definitely is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanfastic Posted July 1, 2017 Author Share Posted July 1, 2017 1 minute ago, johnbu said: I'd bet loads of money that many of the top GM names have worse triggers than MemphisMechanic or me. In fact i know of one tip top GM that definitely is! Probably so, talent trumps equipment. In this particular case, I've shot his gun, and the trigger is very sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbu Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 1 minute ago, Tanfastic said: Probably so, talent trumps equipment. In this particular case, I've shot his gun, and the trigger is very sweet. Cz's can get some nice triggers. A buddy has one w 4 1/2# da. It pops winchester primers set 0.008" deep without fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanfastic Posted July 1, 2017 Author Share Posted July 1, 2017 Ran the Level 2 match today, almost 300 rounds and it ran flawless with that most recent load and the Winchester primers seated at -.010" I really love the gun, it's a joy to shoot, I'll keep working on making the minor improvements to it going forward, getting the FBP fixed, etc. but I don't want to screw it up since it runs and shoots so well now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbu Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 You were running without the fpb at a L2 match? Didn't they check it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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