redfisher Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Here's a question, someone told me yesterday that they measure OAL case corner to bullet corner as opposed to flat top to bottom because that's the way they sit in the magazine, never heard of that. Thoughts? Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garmil Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 bullet corner? What is that on a roundnose? doesnt seem very useful to me. Load data and everyone talking about oal on here or other forums is just normal top to bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 46 minutes ago, redfisher said: they measure OAL case corner to bullet corner as opposed to flat top to bottom Jeff, that technique is called CCL (corner to corner length). OAL is a standard way of measuring seating depth. Guess you could use other techniques, but WHY? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfisher Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 Just now, Hi-Power Jack said: Jeff, that technique is called CCL (corner to corner length). OAL is a standard way of measuring seating depth. Guess you could use other techniques, but WHY? I'm having a nose dive issue I'm trying to track down and I was trying to narrow it down to an OAL issue. it's 38 Super (not Comp) and the OAL is very different measured the normal way vs corner to corner. I've always used the normal way, but the person I was talking to over the weekend had been talking to Bevin (Grams) how had told him to use corner to corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garmil Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 You can narrow it down either way you measure it. If your round is too long then shorten it. Using either method gets the same results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bamboo Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 This is the reason I load JHP at 1.235 and FMJ at 1.250 OAL. The corner to corner dimension is about the same for these two loads. Having some clearance in the mag is important. Checkout www.38super.net for some of the articles with nice pictures that explains this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdude Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Here are the links at 38super.net: http://38super.net/Pages/Overall Length.html http://38super.net/Pages/Bullet Design and Feeding Reliability.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvc4you Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 I have alway loaded 1.235 Montana gold JHP 124gr, 121gr or 115 gr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfisher Posted February 22, 2017 Author Share Posted February 22, 2017 2 hours ago, dvc4you said: I have alway loaded 1.235 Montana gold JHP 124gr, 121gr or 115 gr. Super or super comp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelix Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 I have loaded to 1.240 with 124gr JHP. I shoot 38 super and use MBX 170 mag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvc4you Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Super or super comp?Supercomp, but it doesn't matter if it is super or supercomp, the difference is just the rim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfisher Posted February 22, 2017 Author Share Posted February 22, 2017 4 hours ago, dvc4you said: Supercomp, but it doesn't matter if it is super or supercomp, the difference is just the rim. But that rim can get locked in front of another one potentially causing it to drag in front because it's too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garmil Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Do you know what corner to corner measurement is the limit for your magazines? The link above refers to round front single stack mags where it looks like it would limit length more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdude Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 1 hour ago, redfisher said: But that rim can get locked in front of another one potentially causing it to drag in front because it's too long. Please clarify this. Are you suggesting that the rim of the underlying round can get in front of the rim of the overlying round? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfisher Posted February 22, 2017 Author Share Posted February 22, 2017 45 minutes ago, superdude said: Please clarify this. Are you suggesting that the rim of the underlying round can get in front of the rim of the overlying round? I have seen in my Mags where either top or the bottom rims fall in front of each other causing the nose to drag. this is the whole reason that Super comp was designed. I shot 38 super in a caspian Hi-Cap for years with no issues. I'm just trying to track down why I'm get 2-3 nose dives in 80 - 100 rounds. This is from another thread on the first page of OPEN "Magazine problems". Hello, The Max OAL of a STI magazine is 1.250. With 38 Super, if you load shorter than 1.240, you can get rim lock. Edited Monday at 02:38 PM by dawsonprecision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdude Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Here's what happens: the rim of the upper round sits in the extractor groove of the underlying round. With the semi-rimmed 38 Super, it protrudes farther in the extractor groove than rimless cases. It feels like the rim of the top round is behind the rim of the underlying round, but this virtually impossible. Nosedive is normal in single column magazines, and it can be an issue in some double column magazines. The rimless Super Comp can improve the smoothness of feeding compared to the semi-rimmed cases. But the Super Comp still have a mini-rim and it does drag. http://38super.net/Pages/Brass.html Check your magazines with several rounds in them and look for a gap between the top round and the one under it. If there is a gap, the top round will nosedive a bit. Here is an article for reference. http://americanhandgunner.com/nosedive-and-feed-angle-in-the-1911-45-acp/ It discusses single column magazines, but the principle is the same and if your mags are producing any gap at all, the top round will nosedive. I've even seen measurable nosedive when there is no gap - that's how prevalent the effect of even the smallest rim can be on encouraging nosedive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfisher Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 33 minutes ago, superdude said: Here's what happens: the rim of the upper round sits in the extractor groove of the underlying round. With the semi-rimmed 38 Super, it protrudes farther in the extractor groove than rimless cases. It feels like the rim of the top round is behind the rim of the underlying round, but this virtually impossible. Nosedive is normal in single column magazines, and it can be an issue in some double column magazines. The rimless Super Comp can improve the smoothness of feeding compared to the semi-rimmed cases. But the Super Comp still have a mini-rim and it does drag. http://38super.net/Pages/Brass.html Check your magazines with several rounds in them and look for a gap between the top round and the one under it. If there is a gap, the top round will nosedive a bit. Here is an article for reference. http://americanhandgunner.com/nosedive-and-feed-angle-in-the-1911-45-acp/ It discusses single column magazines, but the principle is the same and if your mags are producing any gap at all, the top round will nosedive. I've even seen measurable nosedive when there is no gap - that's how prevalent the effect of even the smallest rim can be on encouraging nosedive. So OAL for 38S and 38SC should be the same then, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdude Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Just now, redfisher said: So OAL for 38S and 38SC should be the same then, correct? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Anderson Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Like the other guys 1.234 from top of the bullet to the bottom of the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 9 minutes ago, Jerry Anderson said: Like the other guys 1.234 from top of the bullet to the bottom of the case. Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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