2005 Bianchi Cup News & Results

[GrantJ]

Steve

You have obviously given this a lot of thought, but have missed the point totally. How many times have you heard the NRA in there fight against gun control use the very same argument about giving in or compromising. We are on a slippery slope and unless we are all equipped with ice picks and crampons, we are on the way to oblivion.

My "Practicing" lawyer tells me that this move by the NRA board will in fact increase their liability not reduce it. If they enforce a set of so called safety standards and someone has a problem, then the NRA will be liable for not "catching" it in their checks.

As one who has more invested in this sport than I am prepared to admit, I have a lot more to say on this subject. I will be letting the NRA action pistol committee know directly about the error of their ways, and from here on in all correspondence will also be copied to the "President"!

I would strongly suggest that if you have an opinion on this subject you do the same and copy in everyone you know to do likewise.

Oh and by the way, liability waivers are not worth the paper they are written on. Answer this question then. Why does the NRA insist that we all sign them at the "Cup"!

GrantJ

[GrantJ]

For anyone who is interested, I have an Excel spread sheet with all of the stats going back to 1988. It makes interesting reading. The only year I am missing is 1992. If anyone can lend me a copy I would appreciate it.

Don't speculate on numbers unless you have the details. I can tell you all this, under the NRA management of the Bianchi Cup, their has been a steady decline, this year with 147 is the lowest I have on record.

GrantJ

[gmshtr]

I don't suppose anyone has access to the ACTUAL Open Modified results, do they?

I'd love to see how I ended up!

Phil

[Chuck D]

My post has been corrected. I dug out the results books from 1991 and 1992 and found:

1991 had 215 shooters

1992 had 201 shooters.

Although I've shown that I can quote bad data from bad memory, the problems remain the same.

I have the 1992 results data booklet. I'm not too keen on loaning it out but can provide data to whomever...just send p.m.

The only data I was interested in was my 30TH overall finish with a 1906-132X. Lost ground to Benos by a lousy 24X's

[gm iprod]

Chuck

If in 1992 you scored 1906 and placed 30th, the same score would have placed you 15th or so. I believe a 1903 was 17th.

So the scores have come down.

BUT:

How many of the guys that scored above you shot at the last Cup?????

GrantJ,

You know my feelings. See you most likely Wed 8th, late.

Currently in Lake Havasu.

[GrantJ]

GM

If I have told you once I have told you a thousand times. The 2500 don't swim!

GrantJ

ps: se you Wednesday

[Dirty Steve]

Grant J.,

I don't feel I have missed the point. The fact is they want a new rule. It is their toy and their sand box. They are free to break their own toys. The fact is that if a person can not rise to a challenge and they quit shooting NRA AP, then they show what they are made of, period.

If the NRA says thier lawyers want a trigger wieght rule then their lawyers are the one responsible for pleading the case.

I want to go on record saying I don't like the rule but if a 3.5# trigger keeps someone from beating Doug then they have more to worry about than trigger pull. It's called practice. No I haven't finnished in the top 25. But I know what it will take me to get there. An accurate pistol and more Practice. I have the gun and I am working on the practice. I will see some of you at the Cup again next year.

Hey, who knows how the guy walking around Bianchi this year with a limp got the hole in his leg? I do. He pulled the trigger while the gun was not pointed in a safe direction. Safety is simple. You can not legislate common sence, but that won't keep the NRA and Lawmakers from trying. Accidents are going to happen regardless.

Dirty Steve, out

[SRT Driver]

Steve,

The fact is that if a person can not rise to a challenge and they quit shooting NRA AP, then they show what they are made of, period.

Rising to the challenge is not the issue. The principle is the issue.

If the rules are changing for a specific reason, give it to us.

If it is safety, cite some specific safety problems that have occurred.

If scores are getting to high, tell us why someone acheiving perfection is wrong.

And why are the foreign competitors treated like garbage. They spend big $$$ to come here and play in our sandbox but the NRA does not care what they have to say.

Until NRA HQ fesses up, I will not shoot Bianchi again.

I'll tell you what I am not made of. Money.

[Dirty Steve]

SRT Driver,

Ok, I must be missing something. I was in the Army for 10 years and was always under the impression that the folks in charge don't have to give a reason. They are in charge of AP shooting in this country so they make the rules. We can either play by them or stay home. Money should not be a big issue for changing a trigger pull. I have not got an estimate for the cost involved in changing a gun from a 2 lbs pull to 3.5 lbs. But it should be cheaper than having a trigger lightened. A coulple new springs should do it.

I wasn't aware foriengn shooters were being treated like garbage. I thought they were being treated the same as the rest of us. I sent Rudy a suggestion that any new rules would not be in effect till the following calendar year to help with shooters coming form outside the US having ample time to have thier guns fit the new rules. Has any one else done this? The Rules committee is meeting shortly so get those ideas in. If I were on the Committee I would be against it. And I would be very vocal asking why and raisng my vioce to be heard loud and clear. But as it stands I am just another kid in the sand box playing with some one elses toys.

I am finnished with this subject. In case you all are wondering, No I don't have many friends! I am hard headed and, I am always right. Even if nobody else can see it. Haha..

Dirty Steve, Out

[RIIID]

With rules being changed there needs to be a reason so all can understand why. As was mentioned the AP comittee is in charge/control just comform and shoot. What would happen if IPSC/USPSA was to declare ALL guns have to have a #3.5 pull with no reason given just do it or you can't come play. The lifer's will come play no matter what but how many would find a new game to play after raising hell before leaving.

Rich

[Kimberkid]

Steve,

You highlight a great point. As the members and active shooters of NRA AP, who is in charge? "When a people fear their government it is tryanny, when a government fears its people it is liberty." Do we sit idly by an allow ourselves to be owned and told how it is?? We pay them, we support them, shouldnt we have a say?? My problem is not with the NRA as a whole, only the Competitive Board. The fighting for our freedom that they do is wonderful and nessecary and I dont wish to take away from that. I will always be a member for that reason, but them taking on the role of stubborn father and saying things will be this way because they say so is bullshit.

You were totally right about if we dont like the rules we can leave the sandbox, but shooters have been leaving for 10 years now and they dont get it. Pretty soon there will be more shooters at a club IPSC match than the Cup. Y?

[SRT Driver]

Steve,

No sense beating a dead horse, but this is the last I'll bore you on this topic.

The NRA Comp Division does not need to give a reason for the rules change but, for many who have been playing in the sandbox for a few years, the sand was clean and not getting in anyone's eyes..everyone was playing fair...nobody got hurt. So why is there a need to change the rules?

Rule changes like these take away from my already limited range time to make my pistols legal again. Then more range time to shoot events in a different way.

To be honest, changing the rules is not the issue either. The leadership thumbing their collective noses at the core of the sport sounds like a foolhearty methodology. This is what offends me.

If I am going to take a week off of work, drive several hundred miles, pay several hundred $ for hotel on top of the match related expenses, they had better give me a good reason for the changes. They had better give me a plan and how these changes are going to benefit the sport.

For the top guys who are paid to go, the cost is not an issue.

While the top guys get the glory, we are what make this match what it is. Without the "nobody's", as one "top" shooter put it a few years ago, this match and program will wither and die faster than it has been doing for years. Some of the top shooters forget that "nobody's" allow them to make a living pulling a trigger by buying the products which attracts sponsors and attending the matches that showcase their skills. If no one attends, the is no reason for the sponsors to get involved. No money..no big dogs.

Rule changes will not bring more shooters into the sport. Dump the big dollar events at the 'Cup and spend that money on marketing. Listen to the shooters that know the sport, don't tick them off..they are the best marketing money can buy. Or tell me how they plan to do it without our help.

The NRA's blatent disregard is the issue.

[BPiatt]

A few words from, as someone mentioned earlier in the post, a big dog..

I voted yes to the poll..

Do I agree with the rule change... Hell no... and I wrote a letter to the committee last night. All of you need to write one too. All the bitching here does nothing but make you feel better. I know that you're angry, so am I. I'm also disgusted that the committee members that are for this rule (notice I said 'committee members' because I know the entire committee is not for it) can be so swayed by a few nervous lawyers. Grant is right,. we're on the slippery slope and we need to remind the committee, what is it the NRA preaches, never comprimise.

I voted yes because I just love to shoot.. I'll play thier game no matter what the rule is. It's like if I want to go to the PPC Nationals... they have trigger pull minimums. Do I like it, NO but if you want to play the game, you have to follow the rules.

The people that stop shooting the match because of a rule change are the ones that are going to kill the match.... not the rule. You're cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Write a letter to the committe via it's secretary Rudy Dufour at Actionpistol@nrahq.org. That is the only way you can make a difference. If you've already posted your thoughts here, just clip and paste onto an email.

Sincerely,

Bruce Piatt

[BPiatt]

Another thought...

I keep reading that the some of you feel the NRA wants to kill the match.

If that's what they wanted to do, they would just do it. It's theirs and they could do it anytime they want.

I believe most of the problems we're encountering is just bad management. Plain and simple.

Bruce

[Dirty Steve]

Ok, I said that I post my last on the subject, but I'm just glad some one finally agrees with me. Not shooting the match (Quitiing) wont solve any thing.

Bruce I am going to take back some of the bad things I have said about New Jersey over the years. There are now three folks I like from there.

Dirty Steve, Out.

[BigDave]

I sent this today via e-mail:

Mr. Defour,

I am writing in regards to the possibility of the

adoption of a minimum trigger pull weight rule in

Action Pistol.  I urge you and the rest of the Action

Pistol committee to not adopt this rule.  I simply

cannot state that strongly enough. 

I am very, very concerned with the overall health of

Action Pistol, especially at the local and club

levels.  The rash of recent rule changes has left many

a competitor frustrated and participation is

alarmingly low.  I fear that the adoption of a minimum

trigger pull weight in Action Pistol may drive

participation so low that what few clubs that shoot

now may drop even lower.  And in this case, even lower

means nonexistent.

If you are not already aware, a poll has been started

on the brianenos.com forum regarding this issue.  The

overwhelming majority are not in favor of this rule

change.  If you have read this thread recently, you

will note some comments by former national champion

Bruce Piatt.  He warns us that if we do not

participate, that there might not be an Action Pistol

championship to attend.  I am afraid I agree with

Bruce.  The rank and file NRA members who shoot Action

Pistol are upset, frustrated and have had enough.

The current rules clearly state that firearms used in

competition must be serviceable and safe.  This rule

has worked in the past and it works now.  After over

20 years of competition, why this?  Why now?  The

person or persons who suggested such a rule clearly

have no grasp, no grasp at all, of reality.  Among a

rash of other negative consequences, invoking such a

rule will increase liability on the part of the clubs

that shoot Action Pistol and the NRA itself.  Is that

what the NRA wants?

Thank you,

Dave Pluimer

NRA#: 135266082

USPSA FY45672

2004 Bianchi Cup Competitor

[Alan550]

Didn't know where else to ask this, but since it applies to the Cup, thought I'd put it here.

My preliminary printout that I picked up at the Cup had Ichiro Nagata in 65th place. The final results I received shows him as "DQ" in last place. Anyone know what happened?

Alan~^~

[SRT Driver]

Maybe the chrono demon bit him?