Jim Watson Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 The finalized 2017 IDPA rules are out, effective Jan 1.http://www.idpa.com/misc/Rulebook%202017%20Master.pdf PCC almost evaporated, mentioned only in passing as a "Specialty Division" item along with CO and other stuff from NFC. I think CCP stays short enough to obsolete a number of 2015 guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Well,.... while I'm glad they made fault lines mandatory, I feel they still screwed the pooch on it! "Fault line shall be aligned with cover line from the first target in the array when engaging targets in tactical priority from PoC". The pic they show looks to confirm what I think by reading that. To me it looks like It may be easier to tell and enforce cover but it looks like it's gonna be more of a hard lean and I'm wondering if more folks will end up getting more PE from the new fault lines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted December 23, 2016 Author Share Posted December 23, 2016 Yes. I don't know if I can contort around the corner in the example. Perhaps done to punish us, "You wanted fault lines, we are going to help you fault on them." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 13 minutes ago, Jim Watson said: Yes. I don't know if I can contort around the corner in the example. Perhaps done to punish us, "You wanted fault lines, we are going to help you fault on them." Ha ha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kells81 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Fire up the Accushadow and lets get it ON! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 1 minute ago, kells81 said: Fire up the Accushadow and lets get it ON! Oh yeah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kells81 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Steel FLDC appears to be missing in the new draft. The thing keeping accu's and targets out were SSP into ESP. It would appear without the FLDC issue you can go straight to ESP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kells81 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 (edited) 8.2.2.3.1 and 8.2.3.3.1 were the issues. I believe it also opens up running a SAO 97 in CDP since that one is gone also. Edited December 23, 2016 by kells81 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 (edited) Internal accuracy work. Its my understanding they've always viewed the bushing as external. Edited December 23, 2016 by B_RAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kells81 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 It is external but it wasn't allowed because you had to get into ESP through SSP. Going straight to ESP without having to adhere to SSP would open that up would it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 It was because of the milling of the slide for the bushing from a "custom shop". You could shoot a regular sp-01 shadow in ESP with full length rail/dust cover . If it's legal in SSP it is/was legal in ESP. The bushing being external and requiring milling from someone other than the factory makes it illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 run your regular sp01 shadow converted to SAO in esp with a magwell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 revised version 2017.1a is now on their website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 13 minutes ago, Jane said: revised version 2017.1a is now on their website What changed? I glanced at it a few minutes ago, still looked like the same wording for the head shots and 18 sq. in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 I see they removed the FTN language from 4.2.1 and 4.3.1 in this revision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 If it makes weight, you could use your STI Edge for ESP. As long as the side wasn't completely milled out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kells81 Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 23 hours ago, B_RAD said: It was because of the milling of the slide for the bushing from a "custom shop". You could shoot a regular sp-01 shadow in ESP with full length rail/dust cover . If it's legal in SSP it is/was legal in ESP. The bushing being external and requiring milling from someone other than the factory makes it illegal. If the wording is right now its no longer illegal because you do not have to get to ESP through SSP any longer with the FLDC delete in the rules. Paul the Edge I just sold had a bull/heavy barrel and I am pretty sure its still on the Nogo side of things. If you have an Edge with a bushing barrel it would fly and possibly make weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 1 minute ago, kells81 said: If the wording is right now its no longer illegal because you do not have to get to ESP through SSP any longer with the FLDC delete in the rules. Paul the Edge I just sold had a bull/heavy barrel and I am pretty sure its still on the Nogo side of things. If you have an Edge with a bushing barrel it would fly and possibly make weight. I don't think so. The old rules allowed you to shoot the fldc in ESP because it(SP-01) was legal for SSP. Thats not a requirement anymore for the fldc. The internal only accuracy work work is still in affect for ESP. So, the Accu is still illegal. At least thats how im reading it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 the accu isn't legal because CZC isn't a manufacturer according to idpa. the only place you can get an accu is CZC making you one. guns from czc that are "target" models are illegal because of the slide miiling for the lpa sights. the guns don't come from cz-ub or even cz-us with a lpa sight cut. doesn't seem like what is in the ghost 2017 rule book changes any of these facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kells81 Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 I think this lets it into ESP B_Rad, Quote Recoil spring guide rods and dual spring recoil systems made of material that is no heavier than stainless steel. Slide inserts to accommodate a different recoil assembly design. You have this still there but technically your not removing material from the exterior of the slide. Quote 8.2.2.3 ESP Excluded Features and Modifications (Non-Inclusive list): Removal of material from the exterior of the slide other than front cocking serrations, tri-top, engraving, carry melts, and high power cuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kells81 Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 (edited) 3 minutes ago, rowdyb said: the accu isn't legal because CZC isn't a manufacturer according to idpa. the only place you can get an accu is CZC making you one. guns from czc that are "target" models are illegal because of the slide miiling for the lpa sights. the guns don't come from cz-ub or even cz-us with a lpa sight cut. doesn't seem like what is in the ghost 2017 rule book changes any of these facts. But it does because you do not have to get to ESP VIA SSP any longer. In ESP you can have milled slides for different style sights. That only mattered before because the SSP rules. Quote 8.2.2.2 ESP Permitted Features and Modifications (Inclusive list): Sights may be changed to another notch and post type. Slides may be machined to accept different style sights. Edited December 24, 2016 by kells81 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 (edited) boom, there ya go! that's good for shooting an lpa cut gun in idpa. but the accu to them is a special part installed by a custom gun place, czc to them isn't a manufacturer. so you won't be shooting an accu in ssp. i was in arkansas training with mink the very moment he got that call that year the accu was banned in the days before idpa nats. i got to hear all the arguing first hand. it doesn't matter what is true or not, good luck shooting an accu in ssp in a sanctioned match. Edited December 24, 2016 by rowdyb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kells81 Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 Rowdy I am not talking about shooting it in SSP. I am talking about shooting it in ESP. Its definitely not allowed in SSP because of the slide machining for the sights/recoil assembly. Thats the reason the targets and ascu's were not ESP legal because the mods put it out of SSP. Pulling the FLDC rule off of ESP changed the whole legalities of that now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racknrider Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 So my Edge weighs 42.9 oz with a flgr, a full weight slide, 126mm mag and nitrofin. So if my nitrofin was not ground to prevent slide lock, would it be legal for use? It would still be active, it just wouldn't work because my thumb was riding it, kinda like when I shoot my XD/XDms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 (edited) 57 minutes ago, kells81 said: Rowdy I am not talking about shooting it in SSP. I am talking about shooting it in ESP. Its definitely not allowed in SSP because of the slide machining for the sights/recoil assembly. Thats the reason the targets and ascu's were not ESP legal because the mods put it out of SSP. Pulling the FLDC rule off of ESP changed the whole legalities of that now. I think it'd be awesome to be able to shoot one in IDPA! I still think they're not gonna allow it. Not even in ESP. I don't think you're argument for the rule about recoil assembly will work sinc it's a mod to increase accuracy. I've read on the inter web somewhere that someone asked HQ about the Cajun bushing and they ruled it was external. So that would definitely make me think the CZC bushing would also be considered external. Rules say internal accuracy work only Who knows though,.... Edited December 25, 2016 by B_RAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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