rmj339 Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 The open gun I bought is the only open one I have ever fired so I appreciate all the help. My question is I have developed numerous loads in trying to find a nice flat one....but How flat is Flat since I do not have anything to compare it to. How much dot movement should there be cause I know there has to be some. Thanks for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TennJeep1618 Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 I'm an Open novice myself, so I haven't shot a ton of different guns to compare. But I will say that I'm more concerned with the dot returning to the same spot consistently and rapidly than I am with keeping it in the glass (or whatever measure you might use to describe "flatness"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 It's really great if the dot never leaves the scope ... What load are you using? Nice slow powder? 124 gr bullet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 I'm also more concerned with accurate, quick dot return than overall flatness. That being said, I like flat, depending on what I have to give up to get it. One one Open gun with a comp only, I can get it to shoot almost dead flat. The price is 188PF and a very loud, hugely concussive blast. That load also produces more gas than the comp ports can handle, so some jets out the front an recoil to the hand is increased. My second Open gun has two 3/16" poppels in addition to the comp. It is much easier to get a gun to shoot flat with barrel ports. When you are developing loads for a Open gun, the goal is to have just enough gas so all the ports function with little or no gas exiting the front of the comp. Once you reach that goal, what you have is the best you can get with that port/comp configuration. Less gas than that and the gun will have more recoil and more muzzle rise. More gas than that and the hit to your hands increases. If you are not satisfied, all you can do it try a different comp and work up loads all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bamboo Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 15 minutes ago, TennJeep1618 said: I'm an Open novice myself, so I haven't shot a ton of different guns to compare. But I will say that I'm more concerned with the dot returning to the same spot consistently and rapidly than I am with keeping it in the glass (or whatever measure you might use to describe "flatness"). Agree 100% I've had many open guns, and I'll take predictability of dot movement over "flatness" any day. I had one gun where the dot just exploded with no predictability and it drove me nuts. Turned out to be a spring going into coil lock. Now I check all recoil springs for compressed length prior to installing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmj339 Posted December 6, 2016 Author Share Posted December 6, 2016 I am using 38 super 124 fmj pd with WAC 1.25 I have shot 7.6 it was about 1375 7.9 was 1425 8.2 was 1500 the higher end stuff was very accurate no signs of op .... The gun is a dvc open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 I have been using WAC many years in my 9mm Major - nice powder. If I went to the bother of using a .38 super, I'd try other slower powders - even HS6 is slower, and there are other powders which should make your .38 super shoot "flatter". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmella Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 Search "Flat" and Im sure youll find this topic covered 1,000,001 times. I think the search for Flattness is pointless if your goal is to win matches or if your goal is to become the best shooter you can be. Like said above, find a load where the dot returns to the same spot and goes up and down. Or find a load where you like the way the dot tracks and shoot that same load for a while so you are familiar with how the dot behaves. Testing a million different loads searching for the Flattest load is in my opinion a waste of time and effort. Now If you just want to chase the flattest load down for shits and gigs then by all means continue on. A monster Grip can make the gun appear to be super Flat also. Take my advice with a grain of salt (or whatever the saying is) because I am not a GM open shooter. Watch Max Michels gun when shooting open. I wouldn't say his load is "Flat" by any means but he still wins. Lesgar Speedy Murdock has a "Flat" shooting gun and isnt too shabby himself. I dont think the Load is all that important is what Im trying to get at. find a load that makes PF and isnt wasting extra gas that blows out the end of the barrel with your setup and call it a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niroth81 Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 Learn to see more quickly instead of worrying about how flat the gun sits. You can only shoot as fast as you can see, if you learn to see the dot SOONER on the glass you can take a second shot sooner. When you can see quick enough that you are basically WAITING for the dot to appear, then worry about how flat your gun sits. Till then, I wouldn't stress about trying to make a gun any flatter than it sits. My racegun has a quick, somewhat snappy recoil impulse shooting 125gr projectiles at 172PF. The same gun, same powder with a 135gr projectile achieving the same 172PF is a much softer recoil impulse and FEELS flatter. However it also feels slower. I can spot the dot sooner with the snappier recoiling load than I can with the slower load and as a result can take a second SIGHTED shot more quickly. I use the slower softer load for steel challenge for example, no need for a second quick shot on target, feels flatter and easier to transition. Work on your hand strength. Pay attention to how strong you are gripping the gun with your off hand. A lot of people will have a super strong grip in dry fire exercises but not when they are in live fire. Check out this video. One of the flattest shooting guns I've shot in a long time. The difference between it and my race gun is 3 popple holes in the barrel. Check out the other latest selection match videos for comparison between this and my own gun. Like Shmella says. Work up a load that gets you to the point when you have paper getting messed up at a 4" distance from the barrel, wind the load back a bit so only the bullet puts a hole in the paper and no excess gas and call that your load. The rest of your tuning, do that with recoil springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acsr Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 Does the load in the video make pf the brass seems to just dribble out. mine major load flings out the brass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niroth81 Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 Runs 172PF in the same gun without popple holes. 3 popple holes won't drop velocity enough to run that load below major PF. My race gun without the holes will dump the brass in a very neat pile 3ft away from me. I admit this wasn't 100% consistent, but we were testing the top end on a competition frame, so it wasn't all tuned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzy Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 On 7 December 2016 at 3:26 PM, Acsr said: Does the load in the video make pf the brass seems to just dribble out. mine major load flings out the brass Yes oldmate it does 1000% because it's my gun ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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