SCSA peak vs goal times

[scottlep]

For anyone that is interested, I have put together some data for comparing the new SCSA peak times vs potential classification goal times. This shows current peak times and potential goal times for each division and is broken down for each stage and each classification level. Hope it makes sense. Let me know if any of the data seems off.

http://eastcoaststeelchampionship.com/scsagoaltimes.htm

Thanks,

Scott

[jdphotoguy]

Thanks

[hornetx40]

Nice work. this proves what I am thinking. I would bet that most shooters other than GM's have rarely shot an entire match in their current classification. This system will give shooters a higher classification than they can really shoot. Why because few can reproduce those scores on every stage at every match.

I'm not trying to start a fire here just pointing out a different way to look at this. You aren't really an A class shooter until you can produce an entire match at A class

[Tom E]

I would bet that most shooters other than GM's have rarely shot an entire match in their current classification. This system will give shooters a higher classification than they can really shoot. Why because few can reproduce those scores on every stage at every match.

I'm not trying to start a fire here just pointing out a different way to look at this. You aren't really an A class shooter until you can produce an entire match at A class

So what? Everyone else is in the same position. The playing field is level. This is the trap you fall into obsessing about classifications.

[ZackJones]

If our classifications were based only on match performance I'd probably drop to D based on my last major . No system is perfect, including this one, but we'll keep working on it to make it better as time goes on.

Scott - thanks for doing this. I was going to make one up as well but hadn't gotten around to doing it for all divisions.

[hornetx40]

If our classifications were based only on match performance I'd probably drop to D based on my last major . No system is perfect, including this one, but we'll keep working on it to make it better as time goes on.

Zack Thank You for all of the work you are doing. I also understand that with all stages not being shot at each match it would be almost impossible to classify shooters by entire match instead of each stage. My statement was more or less an observation. Master and GM should be difficult to attain. They are the Pinnacle of our sport.

The new system is good and with more data and time it will only get better. It is nice to finally have a classification system.

[ZackJones]

Zack Thank You for all of the work you are doing. I also understand that with all stages not being shot at each match it would be almost impossible to classify shooters by entire match instead of each stage. My statement was more or less an observation. Master and GM should be difficult to attain. They are the Pinnacle of our sport.

The new system is good and with more data and time it will only get better. It is nice to finally have a classification system.

I do think we have a good system but there's room for improvement. I did an analysis of the match results from the FL State steel challenge match and on one stage we had several shooters shoot faster than our current PST for that stage. This tells me we missed the mark and we'll be making adjustments after WSSC. I've also started tracking classification growth since we converted the number below show the number of classified shooters from when we first converted and after the 7/13 classification update run. The numbers represent the total number of shooters classified in that division:

CO - 22/25

ISR - 143/144

LTD - 605/634

OPN - 552/572

OSR - 61/61

PCCI - 2/2 (surprised so few people are shooting this)

PCCO - 33/42

PROD - 672/696

RFPI - 429/435

RFPO - 492/511

RFRI - 93/97

RFRO - 314/327

SS - 201/207

Totals - 3619/3753 (+134)

[wyliearms]

It doesn't bother me. Here is my take on it. Between each class there is padding for a hiccup. Say you are in B, shooting against other B class shooters, there is a lot of time between 143.33 and 114.67 to make mistakes and still be competitive in that class. I can honestly say, by comparing my local times posted, I am always shooting in B class. I have shot some A class times on a stage or 2 but for the most part, I shoot my class. I'd be willing to bet this is true with C and even A as well. Now, If you are at say 116 in Open B and you smoke a stage like never before, it will place you into A in which you will have to work your way back up the ladder. Keep shooting. This means you have the potential in all of the 8 stages to shoot them clean and fast. A good stage is a good stage but as you start accumulating "good" stages, your overall speed increases as well. I look at it as a way to push myself to get better rather than get stuck on the class. I'm not shooting for money and it is more for personal goals. My local club doesn't post scores often so I may have a somewhat skewed opinion. I do see the issue of having one great stage go towards your classification and increasing your class but I honestly think that over time, it evens out. Just my .02.

Zack, thanks for what you are doing. No system is perfect.

Edited July 15, 2016 by wyliearms

[photoracer]

Not always easy to shoot all 8 clean and fast even for the GMs. Right now I am at 89.54% in RFRO (M). Currently my best sanctioned times in S&H, Showdown, and Roundabout are in the low to mid 9s range. But in recent non-sanctioned events (including 2015 WCS) I have shot all three in the mid to low 8s range not to mention I have a recent OL time that is 3 seconds better than my current sanctioned score (thank you Max Michel). My sanctioned total is currently 91.58 and that is about what I am shooting (90-93s for 8 stages), sanctioned or not although at last years WCS I shot 87s. So my shooting is about right where I should be in RFRO, somewhere right in the middle of Master. I am far and away better is this division that the others although PCCO is not that far behind (81.46% is high A).

I think its all working well. Thanks Zack.

[scottlep]

Nice work. this proves what I am thinking. I would bet that most shooters other than GM's have rarely shot an entire match in their current classification. This system will give shooters a higher classification than they can really shoot. Why because few can reproduce those scores on every stage at every match.

I'm not trying to start a fire here just pointing out a different way to look at this. You aren't really an A class shooter until you can produce an entire match at A class

USPSA shooters do this to themselves all the time. Most matches will allow you to reshoot a classifier for a fee after a match is over. So if a shooter shoots the classifier poorly during the pressure of a match, they can reshoot it after and it will count towards their classification if it is better. So if under pressure they shoot a classifier at a 60% which might be correct for how the person normally shoots, then they reshoot it after the match at a 90% it can artificially inflate their classification. While many shooters are just looking to become a higher classification for bragging rights, it kinda screws you if you shoot a match where they might give awards, payouts or prizes by class. Then you are shooting against people who might really be As, where you are actually a consistent C shooter with an inflated A classification.

[Thomas H]

Nice work. this proves what I am thinking. I would bet that most shooters other than GM's have rarely shot an entire match in their current classification. This system will give shooters a higher classification than they can really shoot. Why because few can reproduce those scores on every stage at every match.

I'm not trying to start a fire here just pointing out a different way to look at this. You aren't really an A class shooter until you can produce an entire match at A class

Actually, at major USPSA matches, often exactly the same thing happens. Matter of fact, some GMs will even tell you that your score in a major match (Area level at least) will probably be about 10% lower than your actual classification if you aren't one of the top GMs, as long as the top GMs are actually there shooting the match.

The USPSA classification system works exactly the same way as the SC one, in terms of it being based on the top occurrences of singular events, as opposed to general match scores. (Though occasionally a match score will count in USPSA.)

And yet, the correspondence of high-classification to high-finish is solid. I expect the same to occur in SC. In USPSA, having an 82% classification doesn't mean you will be placing at 82% in a large match. It means that you'll probably be placing towards the top of the A-class shooters in the match, but that's a different thing.

Zach wrote:

PCCI - 2/2 (surprised so few people are shooting this)

This actually really doesn't surprise me. While I know some people with older carbines on which it isn't easy to put a dot, most people I know have newer ones where a dot is easy to add, and most who have spent the money on a PCC have ALSO added a dot and customized the gun somewhat. Personally, it wouldn't surprise me at all to find that the PCCI division will always be incredibly tiny, and that PCCO will continue to grow.

For the sake of my curiosity, are stats going to be available as to the numbers of different people in different classes by division? (I.e., how many GMs, Ms, etc are in each division?)

[ZackJones]

For the sake of my curiosity, are stats going to be available as to the numbers of different people in different classes by division? (I.e., how many GMs, Ms, etc are in each division?)

I have that data. There's at least one GM in every division except PCCI. I'll ask HQ if I can share the exact numbers.