My grip -- how to improve it...

[illtmprdman]

Dear Shooters,

I went to Para-Ordnance's website and I watched a few of Todd Jarrett's rapid-fire videos.  Nedless to say, I was impressed!

What struck me the most is the way his grip "recovers" after each shot -- the gun returns to it's original position almost immediately.  My grip is nowhere near that good.  How do I go about perfecting my grip so the gun recovers properly.  I'd like to get some better rapid-fire accuracy.  Right now, my slow fire is pretty good, but my rapid fire is quite crappy.

Also, Todd's grip on the gun looks relaxed -- not that he is holding the gun loosely, but his grip is firm yet flexible.  In essence, my other question is:  What is the best way to grip my gun (I have a Para-Ordnance P14 Stainless Limited, .45 ACP)

I plan on eventually buying Brian's book, but for now, I'd appreciate all the tips and suggestions I can get.

Thanks!

[Jake Di Vita]

Start here:

http://www.brianenos.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard...42&topic=10

[down0]

FWIW, the one thing I do that without a doubt helps me shoot better gripe-wise is to get the thumb of my support hand pointing parallel to the frame.  That cants my support hand down enough that it helps tremendously with shot-to-shot recovery.

[jmaass]

Your grip can make a tremendous difference in how well you shoot!

This was driven home to me again last weekend, when I met a prospective new IPSC shooter at the local indoor range. He had a new Springfield V12 in .45ACP, and was wondering whether the very high-and-right grouping was his fault, or whether he should adjust the sights.

I watched him shoot, and he was using the grip-and-cup approach, with his off hand cupped uselessly under the mag well. I showed him a proper grip, and he tried again.

Not only did the center of his grouping move down to the level of the bullseye he was shooting at, the group tightened up impressively! He's going to be a very good shooter, I expect, if he continues to practice.

[jhgtyre]

Try this post http://www.brianenos.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard...42&topic=10

-ld

[EricW]

Here's my mini-sermon based on my latest discoveries:

I personally think a hell of a lot of people have "the grip" totally bass-ackwards.  The common dogma is that if one adopts "X" grip, that grip will dictate how the gun moves.  It's really just the opposite.  One first needs to observe how the gun moves, then adopt the grip that allows the gun to do what you need.  (i.e.  drop the front sight back into the notch consistently.)  Shooters seem to be perpetually obsessed over equipment, trick loads, trick gear, and super-double-secret grip techniques when they should primarily worry about vision and seeing.  The seeing will dictate the grip technique.  

Unless you have an identical twin, it's highly unlikely that duplicating someone else's grip will produce satisfactory results for you.

Just my 2 yen.....

[benos]

Nice mini-sermon Eric!

And, we shouldn't forget - The beauty observable in Todd's grip and gun movement was cultivated over many, many, years of paying attention to EVERYTHING he did, while at the range or during the millions of hours of dry-training at home.

be

[Ron Ankeny]

EricW:

Yeah, nice mini-sermon, assuming the shooter understands the basics. Still, a person must begin somewhere and we all know there are some fundamentals to building a proper shooting foundation...including a sound grip.

While I agree with what you are saying, I think fine tuning your grip to accomodate what you are seeing at speed is probably above most beginners.

[EricW]

Ron,

I thought about that just after I hit "submit."  You're probably right.  But, I think I could have cut out *years* of floundering if I had simply realized that seeing was primary and drives everything else.  I've been doing a crapload of dryfiring lately and I've realized that seeing is the dominant factor in everything I do now.  I have to see the front sight perfectly on the draw.  I have to see it perfectly after the reload.  I have to see the next target in order to make a competent transition.  I know that I'm just being the Master of the Obvious, but I really think if a beginner just gets a halfway competent hold on the gun and worries about what he or she *sees* everything else will eventually take care of itself.

(Eric vacates his broken-down soapbox and goes off to fool himself in peace.)

[bird]

illtmprdman,

Buy Brians book yesterday, read it, memorize it, internalize it, then read it again over and over forever,as it is all there...

Todd Jarret has spent millions of hours  perfecting his grip through live and mostly dry-firing (up to, and over 6 hrs per day).

commitment

Buy Todd's video (Brian you should really sell this), and watch it over and over.

Todd explains things in such simple terms that you will almost laugh at how easy it is to shoot a pistol.

The whole video seems like a "cliff note" to Brians book.

The way Todd explains his "grip" is straight out of Brians book,(as is everything on the video).

Buy Brians book and TJ's video,dry fire ALOT and once you go to the range don't think, just shoot.

Live fire is not the time to work out all the grip, stance etc. as that is done during the dry-firing.

Once you go hot and shoot, don't think about anything

and just watch the sights and your body will make the necessary adjustments, (provided you did your homework/dry-firing etc)...

Dry-fire is for working out all the sorted details and live fire is all about vision and watching the sights and calling the shots.

I am still a newBE to this sport but that is the path that I am on...

[Ron Ankeny]

EricW:

We are on the same page. I think many of us "regulars" are reaching a level where we can drive the pistol by processing visual inputs at speed, almost subconciously. I also agree that I could have saved a lot of time if I would have had my prioities straight several thousand rounds ago. Now, how do we effectively communicate that to the folks who have no personal experiences to relate to the concepts? I know how, we could write a book. Oh, someone already did that, lol.

[ORCA]

I agree with the sentements of the forum. There is no one correct grip for everyone. I think the best skill I've aquired in shooting is learning to be aware of what I see and feel while shooting, which I learned from Brian's book. My biggest grip problem was the fingers of my left hand would slip off my right hand. I started using Pro Grip and that solved my problem.

Jerry Barnhart's video has a lot of good information on grip technique. Jerry cams his left wrist down which reduces the muzzle flip and makes the gun recover quicker. It works great but is hard to do for a extended period of time with most guns until you get use to the stretching of your forearm muscles. I recently built a limited gun and put a STI mag well on it, and to my surprise and delight it naturally cams my left wrist down without my concious thought.