2ndSupporter Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Having huge issues with my MP 9 Pro coming out of battery this season after a reload. Never had this issue last year when it was new. I have appx 10k rounds through it. With a Factory Barrell and a KKM, a 13,15 and factory captured 17lb spring, inserting a magazine with a round chambered and in battery will now knock it out of battery fairly consistently. Clearly I have worn something out here. What holds these guns in battery aside from the recoil spring?? Thank you so much in advance!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndSupporter Posted May 9, 2016 Author Share Posted May 9, 2016 I should add I have an apex comp trigger kit. Have used new recoil springs in the above weights. New and used striker return springs. Apex striker spring, factory striker spring and extra power striker spring. I am having a hard time grasping it's a spring at this point. Does the slide lock mechanism do anything to keep it in battery? Is there a spring or something there than maybe worn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Lord Gomer Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 I've never heard of that. Do you have another M&P that you can swap parts with to try to isolate it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndSupporter Posted May 9, 2016 Author Share Posted May 9, 2016 I don't but I have absolutely no doubt it is moving out of battery after a reload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougM Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Does it only happen with a full mag or will an empty or partially loaded mag also do it? I'm assuming from your post that all your mags pull it out of battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndSupporter Posted May 9, 2016 Author Share Posted May 9, 2016 Just ran that test. Round chambered, into battery, empty mag reload it does not come out of battery. Now that I am aware of it I can actually feel the slide move when I seat the magazine but it winds up I'm battery. The mags I am using are well used. I have this issue with my older mags as well as new mags. I am assuming you are going to say mag spring tension but it happens with well worn in mags. Is it normal to actually feel the slide move out of and back into battery with an empty mag reload? The fact that this is an issue this season and not last leads me to believe something wore. How about mag release?? I have a feeling we are getting close to the solution. Thanks Please keep the feedback coming!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndSupporter Posted May 9, 2016 Author Share Posted May 9, 2016 Not the Mag release. Swapped it out. Still feel it move in and out of battery with an empty mag but it goes back into battery with factory 17lb and a 15 and solid Rod. Full mag will not allow it back into battery fully. What's the deal??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awfaxis Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 (edited) 3 things work with or against you. Too HEAVY a striker spring will push the slide out of battery Too LIGHT a recoil spring will LET the striker spring push the slide out of battery Too much MAGAZINE spring pressure (loaded or overloaded) will allow the slide to REMAIN out of battery by putting too much upward pressure on the slide. Get the lightest striker spring you can reliably ignite your rounds. Make sure the USB makes no contact with the striker when trigger is pulled. You will probably like to use the softer primers (Fed or Win). 15lb recoil seems reasonable for most loads. Keep the barrel's chamber clean and ramp well polished to allow the loads to feed with as little friction as possible. I polished the underside of the slide (where the rounds from the mag push up on the slide) to a mirror finish too. Dave Edited May 9, 2016 by awfaxis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndSupporter Posted May 9, 2016 Author Share Posted May 9, 2016 Awesome Dave!! I'm on that. I already use Federal 100 primers, I addressed that issue last year when I did the trigger kit, cci are too hard for this gun. Speaking about trigger bar, first what is the USB? How do I test usb contact? My trigger bar moves right when it's pulled the front flat corner rubs ever so slightly on the frame, I am not sure if that is normal, I do put a drop of oil there, doesnt seem to make a difference. I will definitely do a polish job to those areas as well. Keep in mind I ran 10k rounds last year and didn't have this problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Lord Gomer Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 USB is Apex's replacement for the stock striker block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Lord Gomer Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Lots of discussion about timing in this thread: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=172016&p=1924926 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndSupporter Posted May 9, 2016 Author Share Posted May 9, 2016 (edited) Ok still No Luck here!! Went with the apex striker spring and both the factory and a 15lb recoil spring with an empty magazine it moves in and out of battery but stays in battery in the end. With a full magazine it comes out of battery and most of the time does not go back into battery. If I am a little more gentle it will wind up in battery. So one may summise it's the mag spring tension. However the mags aren't new, and this is a new problem. Why would the slide move at all with a full or empty magazine? Wouldn't that be a defect in design?? I installed the apex kit last year so I have that new USB. I see the link to timing discussions but would this be a timing issue really? Or would the USB come into play at all being this is caused from a magazine insertion? I am really pretty frustrated here. There must be a solution for this. Edited May 9, 2016 by 2ndSupporter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndSupporter Posted May 9, 2016 Author Share Posted May 9, 2016 More findings Unfortunately I live in a communist state and we can only be trusted with 10rounds. If I strip out a round using 9 the slide will not finish off out of battery. So it's magazine spring tension that is causing this. If I am using the same magazines as I did last season without this issue, how is this turning up now? What could have worn that I need to change? Surely the magazine spring tension should be decreasing with age. Any and all suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watlow Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Try taking the mags apart and letting the spring rest or reset for 3-5 days and see what it does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgj3 Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Have you changed the actual projectiles you are using? I could see something like a longer 147gr pill contacting the underside of the slide more. I could see a plain cast/lubed bullet creating more friction on the slide returning to battery than a jacketed bullet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndSupporter Posted May 10, 2016 Author Share Posted May 10, 2016 (edited) More testing results. The rounds are Definately making contact with the bottom of the slide, slowing it down because when a mag is inserted the slide moves Out than back Into battery. I am assuming Everyone's MP moves out than back into battery on a reload, Right?? If I slam a full mag in 10 times the brass actually gets flattened. I shot a small match tonight and only put 9 rounds in my mags (10 round cap) and had zero issues. I came home and cut 2 coils out of a magazine and I can insert a full mag now and not knock it out of battery. I don't want to cut my mag springs down if I don't have to. Could the magazines be over inserting? What prevents a magazine from over inserting on this gun? I am using 147gr Berrys RN jacketed .356 diameter and have the same issue with 147 SnS FP Lead .356 Edited May 10, 2016 by 2ndSupporter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lomshek Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 More testing results. The rounds are Definately making contact with the bottom of the slide, They all do that. In fact most brands and models of semi autos do that. When the slide is forward the rounds in the magazine will hit the bottom of the slide about 1/4" before the magazine locks into place meaning the magazine has to have enough free space to allow the rounds to be pushed deeper into the magazine. slowing it down because when a mag is inserted the slide moves Out than back Into battery. I am assuming Everyone's MP moves out than back into battery on a reload, Right?? Never had a problem on the three M&P FS's I've used. If I slam a full mag in 10 times the brass actually gets flattened. That probably has to do with the design of the mags and S&W wanting to not be accused of sneaking in 11 round magazines. I shot a small match tonight and only put 9 rounds in my mags (10 round cap) and had zero issues. I came home and cut 2 coils out of a magazine and I can insert a full mag now and not knock it out of battery. I don't want to cut my mag springs down if I don't have to. What about trimming the bottom of the follower? Could the magazines be over inserting? What prevents a magazine from over inserting on this gun? The same thing that keeps them from falling out. The catch. I am using 147gr Berrys RN jacketed .356 diameter and have the same issue with 147 SnS FP Lead .356 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valerko Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Get rid of it and get CZ , you dope. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Lord Gomer Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 Could the magazines be over inserting? What prevents a magazine from over inserting on this gun? The base plate is what keeps a mag from over-inserting. I made the mistake of running extended mags in my Shield without the slide on extensions. When I did a slide lock reload I over inserted the mag and bent the ejector. I have a problem that only occurs with TT extended basepads in my M&P 40s. They allow the mag to insert a little farther and while firing they will occasionally bounce up and the slide will effectively lock back when the top round binds against the slide. It does not happen when those same basepads are used on my M&P 9s. I verified this by putting a full mag in and pressing down on the bench to simulate it bouncing all the way up during firing. It would hold the slide back in 40 but not 9. It was not consistent but on some stages would happen 10 out of 15 times and sometimes none out of 15, but it was sure annoying when my M&P went into single shot mode. Here are pictures of a California 10 round mag inserted as far as it will go (stopped by the base pad) and a normal mag tube with the base pad removed: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndSupporter Posted May 10, 2016 Author Share Posted May 10, 2016 testing a mag spring with two coils cut out it seems to be AOK. One coil wasn't enough. The 10th round still goes in quite tight and no chance of accidentally getting an 11th in. Hand cycling seems fine both with feeding and lock out. The proof of course will be in live fire. Should have the last bit of testing done soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkreutz Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 (edited) I don't live in a 10 round state so I have no experience with the 10 round FS mags, but I did discover that S&W uses the same magazine spring for both the 12 round compact mag and the 17 round full size mag. It wouldn't surprise me if they used the same spring on the 10 round FS mag (their idea of saving money) I ended up cutting 2 loops off the spring and it works much better in the compact. I use extended mag bases and was having problems with the "extra power" springs that came with the bases (both TF and TT) I ended up putting standard FS mag springs in my 23 round extended mags and the problems went away. I've shot well over 100K rounds with the shorter springs without problems. I haven't had any failure to feed problems, but since I shoot USPSA, I rarely shoot to slide lock (if I do, it's a screw up in stage execution) so maybe a shorter spring would be problematic in my 23 round mags, but I haven't experienced any. One thing you need to consider is that after you clip the springs, make sure you can't get 11 rounds into that mag, I doubt the authorities would find that humorous. Edited May 10, 2016 by Bkreutz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swordfish Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 I am assuming Everyone's MP moves out than back into battery on a reload, Right?? What? Huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 I've never seen my M&P come out of battery, with any size mag, 10rd included. If your slide can move that much, check your locking blocks, roll pins, etc make sure your gun is not getting loose somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndSupporter Posted May 11, 2016 Author Share Posted May 11, 2016 I tested a 10round mag today with 2 loops cut off the mag spring. No issues with feeding, slide lock or reloading/battery issues. It still takes a good deal of pressure to get the 10th round in, so no way getting an 11th round in there is possible. In my state 11 rounds would get you the electric chair. I believe I found my fix. Hi Vlad, I shoot with you and will be at your club Saturday, I surely intended to talk to you about this when I saw you. I tested a friends mp last night as well. When a full 10rnd mag is inserted with force and a round chambered already, the slide actually moves slightly out of battery and than back into battery. You can't see it, but if you try hard you can feel it. I was kinda surprised too. The excessive mag spring pressure I have is creating drag from the top round making contact with the center portion of the underside of the slide. I have gone over the gun from top to bottom, blocks, roll pins all good to go, swapped mag releases, changed ejector, removed and cleaned extractor, all kinds of new springs and weights, from factory setups to after market, factory and KKM barrels, and 3 different guide rods in searching for the solution. I believe I am back to 100% with 2 coils out of the mag springs. I will be cutting down 3 more mags tomm and test them all extensively on Thursday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacticalReload Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 I tried pay close attention while shooting this morning to see if my gun goes out of battery at all. I didn't see it... even though my fully-loaded full-capacity mags are quite a bear to get seated with the slide closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now