ErikW Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 Speed comes from accuracy. Exponentially so when shooting steel targets. Almost every steel challenge run I've burned down recently came after blowing a run and just putting the sight in the middle of each plate. I ran some El Presidentes at 5.08 and 5.44 (Standard gear, Classic targets), then lost a bet with a 6.14 and Miss on a Vice Pres, then won a bet by keeping the front sight in the A zone: 9 A and 3 C in 5.49. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Capizzo Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 This may not be directly related to the topic, but I've noticed speed also comes from... well, shooting faster. I've been thinking about this since the recent Double Tap Championship where all the stages were very close and very fast. I made sure of my points (shot about 90% for the match) but placed poorly. You've got to make those points quickly. I talked to Jeeper at the match and he said " I don't practice this close and fast stuff and its hurting me". I have to practice accuracy, but I've also got to learn to pull the trigger, immediately when the sight picture is acceptable. Then do it some more. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 Yeah totally true. Shooting steel matches really reinforce the fact that you can't miss fast enough to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 practicing close stuff is hard..it can really lead to sloppiness and ingraining into you that will accept a marginal sight picture rather than a good sight picture.. you will pull the trigger when you see target...rather than the A-zone.. trying for speed is just as dangerous..it causes your fine motor skill to go to gross motor skill and you tend to choke on the trigger, reloads, etc.. I have found you can shoot a good shot as fast as you can a bad shot..so I am trying to train myself to shoot good shots...so far this is working for me in both open and production.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted April 17, 2005 Author Share Posted April 17, 2005 (edited) Just deciding to shoot faster gets me some combination of: better time more C hits more D hits Misses Deciding to see the front sight lifting off the A zone for each shot gets me some combination of: better time worse time more A hits less C hits no D hits no Misses But strangely enough, it often results in a damn good time. (I'll take a mid 5 El Pres at a match any day, or a sub-3 5 to Go steel challenge stage, etc.) I think the faster times come from the consistent splits and transitions. When I'm trying to go fast, they become more raggedy. I keep thinking of what Brian keeps repeating: he got good when he learned he could shoot an A as fast as a C or Miss. I'm working on it. Edited April 17, 2005 by Erik Warren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Capizzo Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 Brian's comment really is intriguing ins't it. I've been thinking about it alot the last few weeks also, but I have to quit thinking about it and realize it. Thats the fun part. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted April 18, 2005 Author Share Posted April 18, 2005 I tried to put that to work today. Got my ass kicked on the first stage, treaded water on the classifier, probably won the 10-round speed shoot by going 4 for 4 on steel instead of spraying and praying the US poppers after hosing paper like everybody else, was very competitive on the 16-rounder, and was very competitive on the monster 45-rounder with only 11 points down and a good time. In fact, I was so awesome on that one, the sixth plate on the rack just surrendered and fell after I nailed the first 5 with 5 quick shots. Then on the stacked poppers, the fifth surrendered and fell after I nailed the first 4 with 4 god-like shots. Oh yeah, the fastest Limited shooter did it without missing steel. Speed comes from accuracy. (Nevermind that he missed a shot on paper.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Read Erik's post last night and was thinking about it. Speed comes from the confidence that the shot you just fired was accurate. That's how I would say it and I'm sure that's what Erik was getting at as well. An example of this is watching higher class shooters shoot steel. How many times have you seen a higher class shooter shoot a popper and leave immediately, where a less confident shooter will stare the popper down and not leave until they see it falling? Confidence is calling your shots at high speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Read Erik's post last night and was thinking about it.Speed comes from the confidence that the shot you just fired was accurate. That's how I would say it and I'm sure that's what Erik was getting at as well. An example of this is watching higher class shooters shoot steel. How many times have you seen a higher class shooter shoot a popper and leave immediately, where a less confident shooter will stare the popper down and not leave until they see it falling? Confidence is calling your shots at high speed. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ummm, Paul, were speaking of me? I was the guy who won the "D"-Unclassified yesterday!! But, some of my buddy commented that I was looking for visual confirmation of the Plate hit rather than good sight picture and moving on! Having just stated shooting 3 1/2 months ago, I am still learning, so each and every time I get to shoot with better shooters, I learn some thing! This weekend I was very luck to be able to shoot with a couple of "veterans" who gave me lots of great advice. I also shot around the super-quad, so I got to watch Chris Tilley, which is great to see anytime. Funny thing is, I think slow is fast for me at this time, just get the hits, and the speed is there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Awesome Job man!! Wish I could have met you. What did you think of the match? Were you able to video tape Chris at all? Watching him is awesome as he continues to get better and better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Yeah, Would have liked to have met you as well! And NO! I forgot both my still and video cameras! I like to get pics of matches, but this one will only have to be only remembered I did try to watch the stage preparation of the top shooters tho, I think there is a lot to learn from just the prep alone. The actual shooting is awesome! The match was a "blast"! Had a great time, I met some good new people, and spent time with a bunch of people I have now become friends with from various local matches! Only thing is, most kind of chuckle when I tell them I want to make "A" Class but the 2006 Flroida Open! ( Started Jaunary 2005) I guess that they don't realize, I am a "human sponge" But I am workin on it! This weekend gave me some good feedback that I am making progress! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 My best advice to you is to breakdown your 3 biggest weaknesses and work on them. Ask lots of questions from higher class shooters and then apply what "you" believe to be best (you'll get all kinds of advice). Then on classifiers don't get all worked up "TRYING" to shoot a good one so you can get moved up. Relax and let your sights do the shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Paul I try to shoot the classifiers the came as stages, although, I have only shot 4 to date. I was told, and sure hope that the FL State Match will be used as a classifier. That would be great, as then it would be a "real world" classifier, rather then a run and burn short course classifier. And yes, I still need to concentrate on my front sight better, don't we all, and also work on my movement. I am not great at shooting on the move, and there is NO place to practice that around here. I guess I am just going to have to use some local matches as practice to learn to shoot on the move better. I like to do the best I can on every stage I get to shoot, so I don't like having to "practice" at a match! I understand how to move and shoot, I have practiced at home with a glass of water in my hands, moving around the house aquiring targets, and trying not to spill the water! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 if you consider speed as the function (Y) = F(Xs), then speed comes from a number of inputs (Xs)..you do these Xs the speed will come.. it is for you, individually, to assess which one of these Xs are restricting your output and work on them.. oddly enough accuracy is one of the Xs that can be dual signed, i.e. +/- or positive/negative. If you are 'overaccurate' then the accuracy will be negative and restrict your speed.. Paladin, .. step into empty and meaningless to experience the absolute mind.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Shooting steel matches really reinforce the fact that you can't miss fast enough to win. But you can hit slow enough to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Shooting steel matches really reinforce the fact that you can't miss fast enough to win. But you can hit slow enough to lose. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I resemble that comment!!!! But I did win my shoot-off at the Florida State Match, "D"-Unclassified that is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 Points - Points - Points!!! Shoot a match this weekend, 90 competitors and after breaking down each stage I shot a lot worse than I first thought. There were 6 stages, I had 2 mikes, shot an average of 88% of the points for the match......that sucks! I also had my recoil master come apart, short stroked the gun by bumping my thumb against the slide racker (my fault because I had a terrible grip). Just getting back into this game from a long layoff and I have some serious work to do. My goal is to shoot between 92%-96% of the stage points. Speed will come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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