Revolver Reliability, Speed, And Carry Questions

[7b7]

Hi,

I am new to revolvers and am thinking about getting one. I have a few questions. First, I had heard that a revolver is more reliable than a pistol, in that it will not jam like a pistol can. Is this true?

Second, I heard that a pistol is faster than a revolver (not including those people that have “gifted” speed with a revolver). When you hear something like this is it referring to the time difference in reloading (a revolver vs. pistol) or is a pistol actually faster shot to shot than a revolver?

Third, how many people if anyone at all carries a revolver like Smith and Wesson 686 (with a 5" barrel) or something of similar size as this as an every day self defense carry handgun? Or is this just too bulky of a gun to carry?

Thanks

[JohnRodriguez]

#1. A revolver is less "problem-atic", if it doesn't go bang when you pull the trigger, you just simply pull the trigger again, unless the gun is empty. counting to 6 is one the hardest things to do.

#2. Yes a semi-auto has a faster cycle time than a double action revolver (bob mundon proved that a set up colt single action is faster than a stock 1911) Thier are other drifts on Brians forums about the splits that people are able to do, and the only person that i've ever seen actually do a .08 split and consistanly with a semi is Francis Livingston, most people, myself included are running about .14 splits, but I strive to not get any mikes, so usually aim when i pull the trigger. Generally a revolver with light loads, like maybe 130pf will get in the .18-.19 range. Jerry M is down in the .16-.17 range, and his record runs had to be at .15 splits. A major PF load will be in the .20-.24 range if your shooting for A's.

On the reload times, a good revolver shooter could get in the 2.0-2.5 range depending on the distange of the target. A semi-auto should in the 1.0-1.5 range for a good under pressure reload.

#3. My carry gun is S&W 625 mountain gun (4" lightened barrel) in .45 Long Colt and has been converted for moonclip use. The ammo is the 250gr speer gold dot hollowpoint. The one nice thing or bad thing is that if you do have to use your revovler in a self defense, you can't get hit for tampering with evidence. With a semi-auto if your a good competitor you just might be tempted to pick up your brass.

[DougCarden]

John, I just read your last post, and about snorted slim-fast through my nose! I will have to advise several of my cops next week at spring range not to pick up their brass if they are in a shoot-out! That is why I dont carry my 10mm any more.......

DougC

[Airedale]

7B7,

John gave great answers on all questions.

All I can add is my daily carry gun is a 625-10, 2" in .45ACP. I will sometimes (not often) carry a little J frame instead.

Dave

[revchuck]

IME, modern autoloaders are about as reliable as revolvers. Prior to the 80s, that wasn't the case. Nowadays, when you see an autoloader jam, it's usually because the owner (rather than a professional 'smith) tried to "improve" it. It's easier to botch up an autoloader than a revolver, and there are more things that can go wrong.

Autoloaders are faster to shoot and reload. This is from a guy who's mainly a revolver shooter.

I usually carry a revolver, a four inch K, L or N frame. (The N frames are usually .44 Specials that weigh about the same as the K frames.) For me they're about the outside limit for year-round concealment.

[Wap wap]

technically a revolver will cycle faster than an auto, however few humans can make it work that fast. The mechanism will operate as fast as the trigger can be operated without limit. Autos have cycle rates, typical 45 run around 350 to 400 round a min. Revolvers have unlimited cycle rates similar to gatlling guns. My use of revolver is due to the wide range of loads in any given caliber and gun configuration. Very few autos can put out the horsepower a Redhawk Casull can for hunting. or on the other end be as small and pleasant to carry as a Mod.38 Airweight loaded with Glaser or mag-safe. The limitation in splits or doubles is people limited not revolver limited. Any hand gun adequate for back country (power factor 300) isn't good for speed shooting and any hand gun light enough to be carried in summer (18 oz.) isn't either--so why compare apples and oranges. In other words revolvers can operate at the extremes of the usage scale while autos perform best in the middle of the usage scale.

[AzShooter]

I volunteer to work as a safty officer every week at one of our local ranges.

It's a shame to see how many new people show up with brand new out of the box automatics that do not work from shot one. I wouldn't stake my life on one unless it had been worked over by a very competent gunsmith and then only after I've put an additional 500 rounds through it without a malfunction.

That said, I haven't come across anyone that had a malfuntion with a revolver that didn't require pulling the trigger a second time. If it doesn't go Bang it's probably because they did some home gunsmithing and lightened the strain screw too much.

Out of the box I count on a revolver to work all the time. The trigger pull may be a little harder than I like but I know it will work with any ammo I try.

As for carry, it depends. I normally like my Model 10 4", .38 special. Soon it will be a 625 in .45 ACP. For a while I stopped carrying but last week my son was car jacked by two guys with semi autos. My first reaction is to give them the car but I also want to be able to keep my life.

[Duane Thomas]

First, I had heard that a revolver is more reliable than a pistol, in that it will not jam like a pistol can. Is this true?

No. It's a common statement that revolvers are more reliable than auto pistols. I make my living testing guns, and frankly in my experience that simply isn't true. I've seen far more revolver malfs than auto pistol malfs. Much more so than a service-type auto pistol, a service-type revolver is a finely fitted mechanism that can jam on a speck of unburned powder whereas auto pistols just chew it up and spit it out.

A great advantage of auto pistols over revolvers is in how many rounds you can fire before powder fouling interferes with normal operation. The area in which performance most swiftly degrades is in how fast and reliably you can reload the gun. Fail to hold the gun straight up-and-down during a speedload - or sometimes even if you do - unburned flakes of powder caught in the chambers will stop the rounds from dropping smoothly and fully into place. Getting a flake of powder under the extractor star will lead to a condition of insufficient headspace that will bind the gun up hard. A high primer can also lock up a revolver, whereas on an auto the worst you'll get is a misfire.

In the past I've gone to training classes where I've put 800 rounds through a Browning Hi-Power in single day, 1,000 rounds through a Glock 19, another 1,000 rounds a day through a SIG P228 (different class), without cleaning and without a single malfunction. I once, just to see if I could do it, put almost 5,000 rounds through my Wilson 1911, without cleaning and without malfunctions. There's not a revolver on Earth that could do the same.

Before anyone pops up with, "I'll worry about that when I get involved in a 1,000 round gunfight," let me make this clear: it's not important in a gunfight (unless the gun chokes the first time you reload it, that is). It IS important during all that training we're all going to be doing to improve our skill level. Every time I go to a handgun training class, I always feel sorry for the revolver shooters who have to frequently come off the line to brush out their guns because they simply stopped working. The auto pistol shooters just keep shooting.

[Duane Thomas]

Third, how many people if anyone at all carries a revolver like Smith and Wesson 686 (with a 5" barrel) or something of similar size as this as an every day self defense carry handgun? Or is this just too bulky of a gun to carry?

Another great advantage of auto pistols over revolvers: in general, for the same power level, an auto pistol will be much more compact, flatter and lighter than a revolver. A all-steel service-sized revolver like the Smith L-frame you describe is a big, heavy beast that's not particularly comfortable to carry in a body hugging concealment holster because the protuberant cylinder digs into your side. The flat auto pistol by contrast lays against the side much more comfortably.

I very much agree with Wap wap's assessment of where revolvers really shine. It's possible to make a truly high-powered (by handgun standards, anyway) hunting revolver smaller than an anywhere-close-to-equivalent power auto pistol. And with very few exceptions it's posssible to make a small-framed .38 revolver lighter and/or smaller than a maximum concealment 9mm. In-between those two extremes of size and power, i.e. the sorts of gun serious people normally carry, it's just awfully hard to make a case for the revolver over a good autoloader. My $.02.

[7b7]

Thanks everyone, for the helpful comments in answering my questions.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

I have carried revolvers for one reason or another since my first Police job in 1972. I have also used a lot of different semi auto pistols.

Any firearm not properly maintained can and will fail. I have seen new semi auto's fail to feed right out of the box and I have seen revolvers break from lack of proper service.

The "Story Teller" has experiences much different from mine. I have never seen a properly maintained revolver fail for the reasons he has stated. I have seen overlubricated poorly maintained revolvers fail and I have seen and had mechanical malfunctions with revolvers. I have seen more problems with semi autos.

The debate over flat sided bottom feeder vs round gun has gone on for as long as I can remember. It is a "To each his own". Both have their place and I still carry both. The one thing I make sure of is when I carry a 1911 or my Sig, I carry a J frame revolver in case they break

Carry is much different from competition. If I carry it, it is clean and has been checked. If it is competition only, it is still clean but maybe not quite as clean.

Treat them right and they will treat you right.

Regards,

[dillon]

I guess I'm out of the mold, as I carry both. I have seen too many truly unusual Semi auto failures, either in broken extractors, stuck cases, etc to put all my faith in a bottomfeeder. I feel that a semi-automatic can generally be made lighter than most revolvers, but for the first five to up to eight rounds, the likelyhood of a revolver failing to fire is lower than that of an auto. So what do I carry? A Glock 19 in a fanny pack, and either a 3" S&W 13 or a 2 3/4" S&W 19 in a pancake holster. I am wider in the middle, and have never expereinced any of the comfort issues Duane has. Of course, he is a gun writer, and they don't always get as steady a diet as those of us with regular jobs.

[Carmoney]

Go to any local (or bigger) IPSC, IDPA, steel or pin match and start counting malfunctions. You will see plenty with the autos. It is very, very rare to see a revolver malfunction under match conditions.

I have competed with revolvers almost exclusively since the late '80s. (This makes me an "iconoclast" according to one of Duane's articles from a few months back!) I'm sure my round count is well into six figures.

Over the years, I have had two genuine malfunctions with revolvers--both times the stud broke off the hand on two different S&W 25-2s, turning the guns into single-shot "non-revolvers." I've also had a handful of clicks caused by crappy factory or handloaded ammo (see discussion of primer seating depth elsewhere in this category).

At the typical IPSC match, you will see at least one poor auto shooter have more gun problems in one friggin' stage than I've had over 17 years of competition with wheelguns!! At today's match, it was a Glock guy that was having most of the problems.

Other than bad ammo and the very rare catastrophic part failure, about the only thing that causes trouble with quality revolvers is dirt. And dirt and bad ammo are both things that the shooter can keep under control.

Mike

[Duane Thomas]

Of course, he is a gun writer, and they don't always get as steady a diet as those of us with regular jobs.

Actually, if having a guaranteed regular source of income is necessary to a person's mental health, I would not recommend they try to make their living as a free-lance writer of any stripe. Really the only reason to do that would be if this is the only work you've every really wanted to do, and you'd be absolutely miserable doing anything else.

[JohnRodriguez]

In the past I've gone to training classes where I've put 800 rounds through a Browning Hi-Power in single day, 1,000 rounds through a Glock 19, another 1,000 rounds a day through a SIG P228 (different class), without cleaning and without a single malfunction. I once, just to see if I could do it, put almost 5,000 rounds through my Wilson 1911, without cleaning and without malfunctions.

"There's not a revolver on Earth that could do the same."

Duane, If you would like, I'd be more than happy to send you my 625 so you could try and make it malfunction. you just can't take the sideplate off and mess the internals or adjust the main screw

This last saturday, I put over 600 round tru my 627-38 super without ever brushing the face or cleaning the cylinder bores, mainly because I forgot to bring my cleaning stuff. Didn't seem to have a malfunction, like you said I sould have.

The only malfuntion I've ever had, and that's with the above 625, is this last february at rio salado, I actually wore out the cylinder stop, and the gun went totally out time, now I keep a spare stop in the range bag. My para's on the other hand have many time lost enough "spring" in the hammer spring to start getting light hits (there ain't no stain screw to fix the problem on one of those darn old bottom feeders is there?). What is the general rule for hammer spring's? replace them every 2000 about rounds, especially when you run the lightend spring, is that not correct??? My 627 has over 50,000 round tru it with the same main and rebound springs (testament to cryo treating, Vic Picketts spring kits 1-480-834-3107, gotta plug my buddy) and the 625 has over 20,000. try that with one of your semi's

John Rodriguez

aka "the sorry old revoler shooter"

[Airedale]

John,

Don't feel too bad about forgetting your cleaning gear. Last Sunday, after getting a bit "cranky" with Mrs. Airedale for making us late, we arrived at the range only to find out I had not packed our belts. No holster, moon clip holders etc.

The hour drive home was enjoyable

Dave

[7b7]

John,

Do you ever carry your 627, or is it too big and bulky for an every day carry weapon?

[JohnRodriguez]

no the 627 is just a compatition open revolver, mainly because it's magna ported, the big butt and scope also don't help conceal it, you can see on the picture to the left

[7b7]

John,

Yea, I see what you mean. The 627 would be a little hardd to carry. If your 627 was not set up for competition (big butt, scope, etc...) would it be comething a person can carry.

Anyone else is welcome to offer comments on whether the 627 is something that can be (or is) used as a carry weapon.

Thanks

[revchuck]

7b7 - A 627 would be about the same as your five inch 686 in terms of carrying - same length barrel, slightly wider cylinder. I'm 6'2" and 210 lbs., and a four inch revolver or a five inch autoloader are about as large as I can comfortably conceal. I have a four inch M27 - blue steel, six shot .357 Magnum - and have no problem concealing that. That inch does make a difference.

The 627 was conceived and marketed as a competition-only gun. You'd have a heck of a time finding a concealment holster for it.

[dillon]

Actually, we carry a kydex holster from Sidearmor that would be okay for concealed carry, and I'm sure kramer would build on of his holsters i n leather for an 8-shot 627.

[Duane Thomas]

What is the general rule for hammer spring's? replace them every 2000 about rounds, especially when you run the lightend spring, is that not correct???

I'm coming up on 30,000 rounds through my Wilson 1911 on the same Wolff 17-pound mainspring, and I've never had a light hit.