Ez Computer Setups At Major Matches?

[Flexmoney]

How does everybody set up their computers for Major matches?

At the Buckeye/Ohio match last year, there were two computers running...independent of each other. All scores were entered into both...so that they could be cross checked manually to find input mistakes.

[bberkley]

We do it with one computer, then use the verification process to make sure data entry is correct. Using two computers and manually cross-checking sounds like a waste of time/resources.

[lynn jones]

you guys have computers? damn.

[Flexmoney]

Lynn, send my your palm system in a box and I'll use it!

Brian, how does the "verification process" work?

[wgnoyes]

We do it with one computer, then use the verification process to make sure data entry is correct.  Using two computers and manually cross-checking sounds like a waste of time/resources.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, Bruce Gary (I think) has a program that does the cross-checking for you, but yeah, I'm sorry, I still think double-entry is nuts. I don't care how many people line up to testify as to its wonders and virtues, bottom line you're still using two computers to do twice the work when you could be using those two same computers to share the workload in a ezws master/slave (or yes, even a winmss network) environment.

At the nationals (2003 3-gun and factory at PASA), we had one or two dedicated runners to go get scoresheets. They bring them back, check them for completeness (yes, even at a nationals you'll find scores/times not totaled or totaled incorrectly) and then route them by stage number to the appropriate computer/stats officer. We type, print verify sheets on a network printer as cover sheets for the related batches of scoresheets and then hand back to the runners/checkers who now become verifiers. They verify and file the finished work and then go get more.

[Flexmoney]

OK...how does Master/Slave work? Can the computers be networked? Or, do you have to use floppy disks or something?

[cking]

You can use a network or floppies, or thumb discs. I think a wireless network with portables would be the way to go. All the stages would be slaves feeding to the master. Have somebody enter scores right after the shooter is done, that way you can ask questions before it lost. Supposedly the palm system is OK. but you have to train the score keepers, and some guys ain't to computer savy.

[Flexmoney]

I have tow computers sitting here...networked (one 98 and one XP). They both have EZ.

Can somebody walk me thru it?

[Soligen]

I have tow computers sitting here...networked (one 98 and one XP).  They both have EZ.

Can somebody walk me thru it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

EzWinScore doesn't really network, what you are doing is trading files back and forth, and having a shared network drive is one way to do it. If you don't know network drives, its not worth the effort since even with a network there is not a real time link between EzWinScore on the two machines. At the Michigan State Match we used a USB thumb drive - its easy, and in the end less total work than hassling with configuring file sharing over a network. I'm well versed in setting up a network, and decided is just wasn't worth the effort given how ExWinScore works.

There is a whole section in the EzWinScore help file - read it all and play with it before trying it for a big match.

Here's an overview:

Step 1

Configure the match.

On one computer set up the stages and register everyone just like any other match, except that there are 2 questions about if you have a multi computer setup, and which is a slave machine.

Step 2

Create a Slave database file

Go To File/Create Slave system Disk. Have it written to the thumb drive.

Step 3

SAFELY remove the thumb drive and connect it to the second machine.

Open the slave database on the second machine and enter scores. Scores can be entered on either system, but it is highly recomended that each computer be dedicated to certain stages to reduce confusion with which scores overlay which.

Step 4

When you want to put the all the data together for a report, close EzWinscore on the slave system, SAFELY remove the Thumb Drive, put it in the master system, and do an Match/Import from Slave.

I'm not sure if you have to, but I recomend doing all registrations on the master system. To get the updates to the slaves, import all the slave data into the master, then re-create the slave file.

This is just an overview - read the help file. If you have a network the process is the same, its just that the file you are moving back and forth is on a network drive. It doesn't really cut out any steps.

[Flexmoney]

What's a thumb drive?

Is that a stick of gum sized thing that plugs into the USB's and act like a HHD?

[Nik Habicht]

What's a thumb drive?

Is that a stick of gum sized thing that plugs into the USB's and act like a HHD?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Basically it's a chunk of flash memory with a USB connector. They're cool because they're small and hold lots of data --- up to a gig now, I think --- and don't take up much room. A local five stage 40 shooter match generates a file of around 500k --- so a floppy might be too small by the end of the match. CD burning and Zips are potential options.....

Since I'm paranoid, I'd back up the files to CD or something else at least at the end of each day......

[wgnoyes]

I'm not sure if you have to, but I recomend doing all registrations on the master system.  To get the updates to the slaves, import all the slave data into the master, then re-create the slave file.

Yes, you have to. God, you will have SUCH A MESS if you don't! (Joe Blow gets registered on one computer and not on the other? I don't even want to THINK about that! Or WORSE: you accept more than one late registrant and register them in your already up and running systems in the WRONG ORDER so they have different competitor numbers. NOT GOOD!) For a multi-system match, my take on it is that registration is permanently closed when the first shot goes off. At that point, and ONLY THEN, do I copy the match .db to the slave computers and set up the master/slave configuration.

(I hadn't planned to write such a long response when I started, but it just kept going.)

The number one rule to keep in mind in running multiple systems is CHANGE CONTROL.

Change Control

That is, anything you do to one system in terms of registration, DQ's, stage information, deleting competitors, changing their class/division/etc, make DAMN SURE you do it across the board, on all systems, the same way, EVERY TIME. I take that so seriously I actually have a form I fill out for each change like this, dated and timestamped, and I have each operator make the change on his system and sign off on it, and file the forms.

How to Handle Match/Stage/Competitor changes

But there's a way to avoid a lot of that paper shuffling when it comes to competitor changes. One thing I learned from the great match-scoring master Joy Hyden when I worked with her on the 2003 3-gun and Factory nationals is to save up all the DQ's and competitor deletes/changes (which includes PF) until the end after you've done the last export/import, and THEN do them on the (at that point) single computer that contains the entire match. That way, there's no chance of computers getting out of balance because at that point, there's only the one system. That also allows the DQ's to, um, age gracefully so you never have to face the hassle of dq'ing someone, and then possibly later having to re-instate him. (General rule of thumb: the less you have to jab your match in the side with a fork like this, the happier it and you will be.)

We haven't had a stage thrown out around here in quite a while. thinking about it now, with what I learned in 2003, I see no reason why you can't save THAT up as well for the end.

Considerations for Scoring a Stage Across Multiple Computers

Here's another consideration. The prime benefit of multiple computer systems is sharing the load and that benefit is impossible to ignore. In the old DOS days, you had to assign stages to computers in a master/slave environment, so that, say, stages 1-5 were scored on system 1 and 6-10 were scored on system 2. Windows ezwinscore allows you to enter data for ANY stage on ANY system and that's a damn nice feature, but if you're not careful, it can cause you a world of hurt. The reason is if you have to key a reshoot for a competitor or rekey a scoresheet that the verifier hands back as entered wrong the first time, YOU HAVE TO KEY THE RESHOOT/CORRECTION ON THE SAME COMPUTER AS BEFORE.

(Think about it. Joe Blow's stage 5 gets keyed in on slave system 2 and a procedural is left off. Joe Blow's stage 5 scoresheet shows up again with a big red circle around the omitted procedural and it gets keyed in correctly, but this time on master system 1. Then you happily go about your business until you do an export/import. Well guess what, Joe Blow's wrong stage 5 result still lives on system 2 and when you export/import, that wrong results gets layed over the top of your corrected entry on system 1 AND YOU DON'T KNOW IT. That happened at the 2002 Race Gun Nationals with a potload of scoresheets and delayed final results for hours.)

So, Joy Hyden's simple take on it is to not utilize the feature at all and continue to assign stages to specific computers and that's the end of that. I, on the other hand, DO let any stage get keyed in on any computer and I track it this way. You get a batch of scoresheets for a stage. Sit down at a computer and key them in. Then you print your verify sheet for those scoresheets. That verify sheet becomes the coversheet for that batch, you wrap it around/staple it to/etc the related scoresheets, write on the verify sheet which computer the scored were entered (system 1, system 2, etc) and sign off on it as the operator before handing it over for verification. That way, if there is an error, the verifier knows which computer was used originally, and the scoresheet makes its way back to that computer because the verifier writes 'system 2 rekey' or some such on the sheet, and crosses it off the verify/cover sheet.

Handling Reshoots in a Multi-Stage/Multi-Computer Config

So what about reshoots? You've entered, verified, and filed away Joe Blow's stage 5 and here comes a reshoot for him. (Note to stage RO: make sure to write reshoot on the scoresheet, as is the nationals standard.) The scoresheet runner sees this is a reshoot and goes to the file for stage 5, finds the batch of scoresheets containing the original result and staples the reshoot over the top of the prior run. He/she sees which computer keyed it originally and routes the stapled scoresheets to THAT computer, crosses it off the verify/cover sheet, and refiles the package.

So all that probably sounds like a hell of a lot more trouble than its worth for the benefit of keying any stage on any computer. But believe me, there's a lot to be said for getting to the last two or three squads worth of scoresheets for a complicated multi-string standards and the end of the match and being able to share the load to get results out quicker.

Why Network Computers Together, Anyway?

Well.... if you don't mind passing a USB key back and forth, that's fine; you really don't have to do real networking. (By the way, more and more laptops don't even HAVE floppy drives anymore.) But I have each slave computer define a sharable area that contains their match file and their exported slave files and connect those as network drives to the master. At various times of the day, we stop work and the slaves export their matches. I then just point at those network drives from the master and import directly into my system. I also copy their match files as they are into a separate date/time-labeled folder so that I have checkpoints of how things were at any given interval for disaster recovery purposes.

Beyond that, networked computers can all share one fast laser printer. That's a very compelling reason to network right there. We also run a wireless network so the match director's computer can tie in and use the same printer as well, in addition to having access to the match itself and all the goodies that I bring on my system like receipt forms, stage sign ppt's, uspsa forms, etc, etc.

Why is It This Much of a Pain in the Ass?

Okay, everyone who now wants to rant and rave about how computers are supposed to do all this nitpicky crap for you and what a load of garbage and why can't we fix it or use something else, etc, etc, ad nauseum (I've heard it all), go ahead and spend your time and energy and knock yourselves out. [standing by]

Are you all done now? Good. My response to you is you're absolutely right. But short of waiting around for PSS/ASS palm scoring import export to be fully implemented in ezws (or doing whatever Rob Boudrie does at Area 7 with Palms and ezws), your protests about hassles and paper juggling and whatnot are probably not going to be answered anytime soon, not because I'm standing in the way (I'm not and have no official authority over it anyway) but because its a USPSA budgetary process and consideration to get new features added into the system. In the meantime, this is the way it is, and the above are several things to keep in mind when scoring a major match.

Bottom line, follow good office procedures and you'll do fine scoring any match with any configuration of computers.

[bberkley]

Brian, how does the "verification process" work?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kyle,

Looks like someone already answered that question.

We had 55 shooters yesterday and I did all the scorekeeping for 6 stages. Verification only turned up one mistake by me in entering, and that was total time by .02 difference for one shooter. Its time consuming if you do it all yourself. I waited until close to the end of the match before running the Verification for Stats reports, and then had some other shooters do verification while I finished entering scores.

Brian

[Shooter Grrl]

What's a thumb drive?

Is that a stick of gum sized thing that plugs into the USB's and act like a HHD?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sheesh you guys! Kyle, I'll answer your question - YES! It's the gum sized thing that plugs into the USB's and acts like a HD.

Your problem is going to be which USB "version" you've got. If your 'puters are as old and slow as you've led me to believe, they may not work.

[Al Capizzo]

One other thing. Don't stress to much. It really isn't terribly complicated if you can practice even once. Try an imaginary match of just 3 or 4 shooters shooting 4 pretend stages. Save some score sheets from a local match or something like that so you've go something to enter.

Score 2 stages on your master computer, the other two on your slave, and see how they go together.

Its not bad.

And I really recommend those "jump drives", or thumb drives, or whatever people call them. Burning CD's works, its just a little slower and clunkier.

Also, make sure one person understands how the system works and put them in charge. Everyone else in the room needs to follow that persons instructions or it can get very confusing.

Al

[Shooter Grrl]

BTT - we're trying to decide how to setup the OH State Match. Do ya'll have any new suggestions or better mousetraps now?

[AikiDale]

If I were in charge of setting this up I'd bribe Rob Boudrie to come down and do his magic.

Then I'd pay real close attention so I could do it next time....

Edited September 19, 2006 by AikiDale

[robomanusa]

Kath...You can set it up the same way i did for last years match if you can find enough loaner computers. I'm sure your quite capable of setting it all up.

[Flexmoney]

Last year, I got Nick 4 computers. He networked them together. He used one as the Main Computer...allowing it to look stuff up and do the printing chores fairly freely. Then, the other three computers were for data entry. Each of those three were dedicated to a set of stages (3 stages each).

[robomanusa]

Last year, I got Nick 4 computers. He networked them together. He used one as the Main Computer...allowing it to look stuff up and do the printing chores fairly freely. Then, the other three computers were for data entry. Each of those three were dedicated to a set of stages (3 stages each).

I do have a suggestion for this years match, last year in the club house we had approx. 3 power outages per day up there so I would recommend a UPS of some sort for safety to avoid those problems this year if they havent fixed that breaker problem.

[Shooter Grrl]

I'm thinking that 2 computers should be enough. I can enter our regular monthly match (60 shooters, 6 stages) in about an hour. The verification and printing are the time consuming stuff. Am I being too optimistic in thinking that 1 person entering will suffice?

[robomanusa]

Am I being too optimistic in thinking that 1 person entering will suffice?

Yes.

Your not gonna have all the scoresheets at once from the entire match like your normal weekend match. Your gonna be drug out an entire day entering data as it comes up from the squads finishing each stage. Then you may have the dreaded reshoots hope not. but it happens and scores need re-entered, so I recommend you wait a while after the first squads roll thru each stage so as not to have to re-enter the scores again. Then you may have scoresheets not legible that have to be checked against the shooters copy. Takes time to run and ask....it's not something just 1 person needs to be doing, it will need to be a TEAM effort.

Just my opinions...... I wont be there this year

[Shooter Grrl]

Not one person working stats - one person entering. We'll be switching off enterers, so someone will be at the computer the whole time.

[Flexmoney]

...I would recommend a UPS of some sort for safety to avoid those problems this year if they havent fixed that breaker problem.

I don't have one of those. I wonder if Anderson has some laying about...

I'm thinking that 2 computers should be enough. I can enter our regular monthly match (60 shooters, 6 stages) in about an hour. The verification and printing are the time consuming stuff. Am I being too optimistic in thinking that 1 person entering will suffice?

Kathy, you are looking at three and a half times more score sheets (or more).

I'd probably like to get you two input computers, then the main computer. I think I'd like to see a printer for each of them, so we can get them all trying to keep up with the printing tasks at the end of the day.

Nick,

Could you explain the process you used last year to get the scores from the input computer(s) into the main computer? (I am avoiding the terms master and slave computers, as I don't think you used EZ's master/slave way of doing things?)

Also, you had to be careful about a few other things (DQ's, division changes and such..) ??

[Shooter Grrl]

I haven't figured out HOW to enter on 2 computers AFAIK, anytime I've seen more than 1 computer for scoring, they've been doing double entry - that is, the same score sheet entered twice (blech!)

Can someone explain in plain english how to do entry into a match on more than one computer?