bluemeanie Posted February 11, 2002 Share Posted February 11, 2002 Here is the situation, as best I can describe it. Bench, not as solid as it should be, but I'm an apartment dweller, so I can't bolt it to the wall. I'm using lightly fired brass, win. and fed. Neither brand seems to exhibit a higher problem rate than the other. I started using Fed 150's, then ran out and had to try win. primers. I can sort of feel when a primer doesn't seat properly. This was easier with the federals. I pull the case when this happens and examine it. If nothing is wrong, (sideways or upside down primer-rare, but it's been happening) I make a fairly gentle attempt to seat it deeper. If it doesn't work, I toss the case. I'm getting 4 or 5 obvious high primers every 50 rounds or so. I discard those rounds and go shooting. If one feels flush or below, I use the round. Since I got the winchesters, I used them in one match. I had FOUR failures to fire. The more experienced reloaders there told me that these primers were high, and that the firing pin was denting them, actually seating them deeper, but not lighting them. My buddy has a similiarly arranged bench and press, and no primer problems. I have be's reloading video, and he loaded on little more than a card table. I bet every round was shootable. Help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted February 11, 2002 Share Posted February 11, 2002 Federal primers are easy to ignite than are the Winchester's. Are you sure they were high primers or just light strikes? Did you try and refire those rounds? If so did they all go "bang" on the second go-around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemeanie Posted February 11, 2002 Author Share Posted February 11, 2002 Uhhhhh...no. I tossed 'em in the dud bucket. Damn. THe gun is a Glock 21, and the striker usually just plows right into the primer, makes that rectangular mark on it. These did not show it as clearly. I did not pick up brass (no comparison cases), because I was going to buy some new starline. I had some more rounds with Federal primers to use, so I finished the match with them. I'm not helping in the investigation here, am I? This gun ate any and all factory ammo I fed it before I started reloading. I will tear down my slide and see if anything is broken or dirty. Per the Glockpeople, I never, ever, ever put oil in the striker channel. Until I report back on gun condition, any thoughts on how I can prime a little more consistently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted February 11, 2002 Share Posted February 11, 2002 Is it a stock Glock? If so that is really weird and probably was high primers. Unless maybe you have some crap stuck in the striker channel. Do you know how to take the striker out and clean the channel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted February 11, 2002 Share Posted February 11, 2002 What kind of press? You may be able to adjust the primer seating depth. My high primer situation improved with a Dillon strong mount then improved greatly on a super-sturdy bench. For the high primers that don't fire, try the rounds again. The first hit usually seats them and the next hit will fire them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemeanie Posted February 11, 2002 Author Share Posted February 11, 2002 It's stock. This is the first time I've taken the top end of this particular Glock apart. The channel is dirty, but no debris and nothing's broken. The spring is still very, very stout. The spring cups look different than I remember from my other guns, but there's an armorer a couple of blocks over who'll help me out with a little advice on how to get the spring assy. apart and clean it. I think It's a primer problem. Do dirty primer pockets have anything to do with this? I've never heard of anyone cleaning primer pockets in handgun brass, but,hey, what do I know? Erik, the press is a Dillon 650. Since this is intermittent, it would SEEM to be a prob with the bench or the nut on the handle I have gained some experience with the feel of a proper primer seat vs. a bad one, but It's harder to tell with the winchester ones. Is it unwise to try to adjust the primer ram? If that would help and be safe, I'm all over it. There's not much more I can do with my bench, but advice on the press and technique sure won't hurt. (Edited by bluemeanie at 3:43 pm on Feb. 11, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snokid Posted February 11, 2002 Share Posted February 11, 2002 It's not crimped brass is it? that will give the same results.... sno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemeanie Posted February 11, 2002 Author Share Posted February 11, 2002 Crimped primer pockets? I hope not. Mostly winchester brass, saved from commercial factory ammo, bought new by me. Not scrounged range brass. Sorted by headstamp. Tossed everything but win. and federal. I have noted extra resistance on the upstroke on a very few cases. After making sure that the case is aligned on st1, and making sure the bullet isn't crooked in the seating stem, I completed the stroke, and it seemed to be the decapping that was causing the resistance (not jam). This has been VERY rare and wouldn't account for the number of high primers. Could some of this new production win. brass be military? (Edited by bluemeanie at 4:08 pm on Feb. 11, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted February 12, 2002 Share Posted February 12, 2002 A few ideas derived from HOURS of frustrating troubleshooting. 1. Check for errant spent primers in the primer feed mechanism. These can prevent full seating if they're sitting on top of the primer slide. 2. (My bet) Check the two countersunk allen head screws underneath the aluminum loading plate (where you slide the brass into the shellplate). If one or both of these is loose they will prevent the primers from being fully seated. Consider using blue Loctite to keep this from happening again. 3. Disassemble and thoroughly clean the primer feed mechanism - especially the primer cup assembly. Crud build up in this can cause seating problems. 4. Get or make a strong mount. I made one out of 3/8" Aluminum plate with brackets that clamp to the edge of an old office table. Has worked great for 6+ years. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Schwab Posted February 12, 2002 Share Posted February 12, 2002 I know little about Glocks but have heard that Glocks and Winchester primers don't mix well. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted February 12, 2002 Share Posted February 12, 2002 The true story will be revealed when you try and re-fire on that did not go bang the first time. If it goes bang the second time, then most likely a high primer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted February 12, 2002 Share Posted February 12, 2002 My glock's striker channel was VERY difficult to clean until started using gunscrubber and pipe cleaners - they seem to be the only way to clean out the crud that gets forced forward ahead of the striker and stuck in the channel. As for my 650? The primer system jams more than any other part on this otherwise excellent machine. There is an adjustment on the primer ram; just make sure the ram has plenty of travel (to the point of overtravel) and that the shellplate bolt is not too loose; I keep the plate as tight as possible without causing drag on its movement; dry moly spray under plate helps keep its operation smooth. The only crimped brass I have run accross was marked "FC" and had a two digit date (i.e. Federal Cartridge [19]99). Tried removing the primer pocket crmp with a Lee chamfer/reamer - sometimes it worked, but not worth the effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBChaffin Posted February 12, 2002 Share Posted February 12, 2002 Just my $.02. Call Dillon and see what they say about it. They have been very helpful when I have had a question. The number is 1-800-762-3845. I never had a problem with Federal primers in my Glock 21 and that was all I would reload. Just my preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted February 12, 2002 Share Posted February 12, 2002 I've had no problems with Winchester primers in Glocks with the reduced power or standard striker springs, if I fully seated the primer. I would guess either a machine adjustment is in order, or real awareness on the upstroke to seat the primer. Good Luck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeeter Posted February 13, 2002 Share Posted February 13, 2002 i had the same problem a while back and the problem turned out to be the shell plate wasn't as tight as it could be. and every time you try to see the primer the plate tilts a little so the primer doesn't always seat right. felt really dumb for miss the easy answer, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted February 13, 2002 Share Posted February 13, 2002 I never like reloading 45 winchester brass with winchester primers. For some unknown reason, the primer pockets are really tight. I get to the point where I'm afraid to push any harder to seat the primer. I have no problems with Starline brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemeanie Posted February 13, 2002 Author Share Posted February 13, 2002 Ain't the net grand? Access to experience is a wonderful thing. Update: I have experienced a few more failures w/ the win. primers, and a second attempt found that they all fired, except one. A third attempt fired that one. I have given the press a good look without disassembly, and found that one of the bolts securing the press to the strong mount was loose. The priming system was not. I will remove the shell plate, clean the press, and call dillon for some advice on adjusting the primer ram. It doesn't seem to be covered in the manual. I plan to go back to fed. primers (for the feel, mostly) and start using starline brass. Thanks to all for your time, and post again if another idea pops into your head. I will still be checking the thread until it dies of old age and neglect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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