kurtm Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) Mr. Bacus, I'm pretty sure my point was that Mark doesn't recommend stuff that he hasn't tested and tried AND likes. The cool part is that he and I expect about the same for our gear, so if Mark says its good, I usually like it too. We may disagree on a few technical aspects, but if Mark likes it, it is usually "adequate to travel".........cool guy way to say " good to go" Edited October 8, 2015 by kurtm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 If it were not for working with some of my sponsors who have very nice optics and carbines (Burris AR1X and Rhino 18" carbines) I would still run a set up like this successful one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmiller Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Pat, are you working on a 22" irons project? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 No offence Pat, but that is one UGLY rifle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Pat, are you working on a 22" irons project? Yes I am. Should be testing soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 No offence Pat, but that is one UGLY rifle! Yup, but the targets don't seem to care! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyinTX Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 The downside for a new guy to put together a set of irons similar to what is on Pat's rifle means you are spending a few dollars less than a Burris or Vortex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmiller Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 The downside for a new guy to put together a set of irons similar to what is on Pat's rifle means you are spending a few dollars less than a Burris or Vortex. Not if I ever get my cnc up and running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Well played my friend, well played!!! As for cost of real irons, about 80.00 for the front and 60.00 for the back, and never a battery cost, so if you can get a real cool red dot for 140.00, crack on!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyinTX Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Which front is that then Kurt? I really like the globe sight fronts but the whole setup costs prism sight money. I've been looking for an alternative but I don't like the look of a standard sight post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 If you don't like the "look" of a standard sight there is no help that I know of, but Decot is still there for glasses. After using M-14 style sights since 1974, I just can't get my head around a globe front sight for what we do. Maybe for a bullseye target, but not for this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) I jump back and forth with the A2 front and the globe. I do know that the globe guards against the "Kurt Bentfront Miler" sight phenomenon that caught him once. I also have been working with this front post in my A2's housing. Edited October 9, 2015 by P.E. Kelley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T Bacus Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Mr. Bacus, I'm pretty sure my point was that Mark doesn't recommend stuff that he hasn't tested and tried AND likes. The cool part is that he and I expect about the same for our gear, so if Mark says its good, I usually like it too. We may disagree on a few technical aspects, but if Mark likes it, it is usually "adequate to travel".........cool guy way to say " good to go" Kurt, I re-read my post, and with it right after yours I can see were you would think I was responding to what you wrote. My comment was that many get criticized for being fanboys of a particular gun or product to the exclusion of all others, yet here Mark was being criticized by an earlier poster for constantly 'jumping gear'. I fully understood the humor of your post and what you had said was not what I was responding to. I apologize for the confusion. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I remember that bent sight. Superstition. However, Daniel Boone was able to hunt and eat with sights not unlike current iron sights using whatever his variation of Kentucky windage was. I think that's what Kurt did with that episode. As we all have done as lads with our single shot .22. There is no one sight that will fit everyone. I don't care how or who tests it. If your eyes suck, Aimpoint's look like a goat scrotum with 8 balls or the proverbial bag of grapes, who cares how long the battery lasts. Eotechs are good once you get used to them. Close up, if its in the TV, it's down. Delta Points and various other sights have their benefits and negatives. If your eyes have no astigmatism, can accommodate at least 10 diopters and your vision is 20/20, plain vanilla A1 or A2 sights are hunky dory. That would be from young people up to age 40, hence the majority of infantry riflemen in that age group. Roughly at age 40 accommodation is lost, going to about 1 diopter at age 70. If you don't have 20/20 vision, the Decot solution recommended by KurtM above works fine. If you have astigmatism(30-80% of the population, depending on age), specially fitted contact lenses can correct this. There is no correction for loss of accommodation, because that is the contraction and release of the ciliary muscles making the lens of the eye longer or shorter. Meaning closer or farther focus. Like any other muscle they get tired. The upshot of this is that there is no "best" 3 gun limited optic under current rules and no sight is necessarily better than any other. You basically have to try them all and see your eye doctor before deciding what is the best for you. I think experience in shooting iron sights is essential, and if you never shot iron sights until you were age 40, the learning curve and variables would make me say "what's the point?". KurtM has been doing this since Abraham Lincoln was President and might not need as much information from his eyes as a newer shooter to shoot well in 3 gun. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael1778 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 I remember that bent sight. Superstition. However, Daniel Boone was able to hunt and eat with sights not unlike current iron sights using whatever his variation of Kentucky windage was. I think that's what Kurt did with that episode. As we all have done as lads with our single shot .22. There is no one sight that will fit everyone. I don't care how or who tests it. If your eyes suck, Aimpoint's look like a goat scrotum with 8 balls or the proverbial bag of grapes, who cares how long the battery lasts. Eotechs are good once you get used to them. Close up, if its in the TV, it's down. Delta Points and various other sights have their benefits and negatives. If your eyes have no astigmatism, can accommodate at least 10 diopters and your vision is 20/20, plain vanilla A1 or A2 sights are hunky dory. That would be from young people up to age 40, hence the majority of infantry riflemen in that age group. Roughly at age 40 accommodation is lost, going to about 1 diopter at age 70. If you don't have 20/20 vision, the Decot solution recommended by KurtM above works fine. If you have astigmatism(30-80% of the population, depending on age), specially fitted contact lenses can correct this. There is no correction for loss of accommodation, because that is the contraction and release of the ciliary muscles making the lens of the eye longer or shorter. Meaning closer or farther focus. Like any other muscle they get tired. The upshot of this is that there is no "best" 3 gun limited optic under current rules and no sight is necessarily better than any other. You basically have to try them all and see your eye doctor before deciding what is the best for you. I think experience in shooting iron sights is essential, and if you never shot iron sights until you were age 40, the learning curve and variables would make me say "what's the point?". KurtM has been doing this since Abraham Lincoln was President and might not need as much information from his eyes as a newer shooter to shoot well in 3 gun. Good luck. ^^^^ This. Being new to corrective lenses in my mid-40s sucks!! I went round and round with my sports vision specialist optometrist. Then realized that if I just get corrected for infinity and don't dance around with focus distances (sight-target-sight-target-repeat) I'll be much better off. That pointed me toward Open (now sometimes called Unlimited). In retrospect, I could have done something different if I knew *then* what I know now. Oh well. Life happens. If I do a Heavy Metal rifle as an offshoot of my 6.5 Creedmoor, I'll be eager to try one of the upcoming Burris reticles. I look forward to seeing the reticle designs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 6.5 ain't heavy (not by the rules anyway) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael1778 Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 6.5 ain't heavy (not by the rules anyway) Right, the plan would be to use the same LR-308 pattern lower from my precision gas gun and put on a 308 upper. Probably an 18" rifle gas upper for that. Seems like once you make the investment in the JP bolt, JP LMOS carrier and a good trigger in the lower, you're most of the way to a fair Heavy Metal rifle....just short the upper assembly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 6.5 ain't heavy (not by the rules anyway) Right, the plan would be to use the same LR-308 pattern lower from my precision gas gun and put on a 308 upper. Probably an 18" rifle gas upper for that. Seems like once you make the investment in the JP bolt, JP LMOS carrier and a good trigger in the lower, you're most of the way to a fair Heavy Metal rifle....just short the upper assembly. Great use of high quality gear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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