Mad Doc Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 (edited) How is the illumination and dot size on the SM2 reticle? I imagine their '2 MOA' description is the 1x size and red dot like, but I'm not sure what that would look like at 6x and on smaller targets. The dot is very bright no fading under Arizona sun and its very easy to use at 1x magnification. I looked at several others brands including the Swarovski and I haven't regretted my decision one bit. I haven't had a problem with the dot been too large. Edited September 4, 2015 by Mad Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Post redacted. I will instead add to this thread constructively. To the OP. Only you can decide which one you will like better, and the only way to tell is to look through them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgj3 Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 The Khales rocks! If $$$ was not an object, thats what I would have. Bright dot, simple and effective reticle, good warranty, solid reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 I have a k16 inbound. I will report if it is able to knock the TA-11 off my trooper/open rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Swaro Z6i still has the best reticle and illumination in 3gun. I own 3 of them. Is like a Kahles but the reticles don't get me excited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Jessie, The BRT and the G4B reticals are pretty similar, with the G4B being a little simpler. The illumination is more straight forward on the K16 as well. To me everything the K16 seems more utilitarian and function oriented, less stylized. The illumination on the K16 goes from NV to burn your retina out, I will keep track of battery life. Too soon to judge the optical quality, it looks good so far, but most all scopes look good until they get pressed. Clartity and resolution seem good, but the eye box is no where near as large as the TA-11, seems about the same as the Z6i. If I get it mounted today, I will try and get it to the range for some resolution and box testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Jessie, The BRT and the G4B reticals are pretty similar, with the G4B being a little simpler. The illumination is more straight forward on the K16 as well. To me everything the K16 seems more utilitarian and function oriented, less stylized. The illumination on the K16 goes from NV to burn your retina out, I will keep track of battery life. Too soon to judge the optical quality, it looks good so far, but most all scopes look good until they get pressed. Clartity and resolution seem good, but the eye box is no where near as large as the TA-11, seems about the same as the Z6i. If I get it mounted today, I will try and get it to the range for some resolution and box testing. They look kinda similar. What's the spacing on the drops on the G4B? BRT is Mils which lines up pretty close with 100/200, 300, 400, 500, 585 on .223. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Swaro Z6i still has the best reticle and illumination in 3gun. I own 3 of them. Is like a Kahles but the reticles don't get me excited. Not to thread drift too much...but since you have owned those AND the Steiner Military 1x5 what are your thoughts on the Steiner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Swaro Z6i still has the best reticle and illumination in 3gun. I own 3 of them. Is like a Kahles but the reticles don't get me excited. Not to thread drift too much...but since you have owned those AND the Steiner Military 1x5 what are your thoughts on the Steiner? I'm not sure on the terminology but somebody smarter then me told me that In order to get really bright swaro type illumination you need to have the lines of the reticle run to the sides of the scope. The Steiner has a floating reticle so it has much lesser degree of brightness. Closest thing to it is the glow of a Trijicon. The lack of really bright for is why I ran mine in my night match gun and wh I eventually sold it and went to the razor on that gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Swaro Z6i still has the best reticle and illumination in 3gun. I own 3 of them. Is like a Kahles but the reticles don't get me excited. Not to thread drift too much...but since you have owned those AND the Steiner Military 1x5 what are your thoughts on the Steiner? I'm not sure on the terminology but somebody smarter then me told me that In order to get really bright swaro type illumination you need to have the lines of the reticle run to the sides of the scope. The Steiner has a floating reticle so it has much lesser degree of brightness. Closest thing to it is the glow of a Trijicon. The lack of really bright for is why I ran mine in my night match gun and wh I eventually sold it and went to the razor on that gun. Mine must be an odd duck as it is very bright...Aimpoint bright! I was hoping you have enough time on one to comment on durability. No matter I will be the "test dummy" Thanks Lad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCAR Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I would cut someone else's arm off for a Kahles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 The rings I planned on using will not work, needs an offset or cantilever mount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkim Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Jessie, The BRT and the G4B reticals are pretty similar, with the G4B being a little simpler. The illumination is more straight forward on the K16 as well. To me everything the K16 seems more utilitarian and function oriented, less stylized. The illumination on the K16 goes from NV to burn your retina out, I will keep track of battery life. Too soon to judge the optical quality, it looks good so far, but most all scopes look good until they get pressed. Clartity and resolution seem good, but the eye box is no where near as large as the TA-11, seems about the same as the Z6i. If I get it mounted today, I will try and get it to the range for some resolution and box testing. They look kinda similar. What's the spacing on the drops on the G4B? BRT is Mils which lines up pretty close with 100/200, 300, 400, 500, 585 on .223. Thanks for asking this question. I can't find anyone who knows. I don't think I have posted the reticle pic I was given by their CS yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) The picture you posted answered the question. Given the measurements listed in the detail and the ballistic information about your chosen load in your gun you can predict the drop of your bullet at range and determine what distances the aiming points will correspond to. For my load I would expect that the first hash would equate to 350 yards, the second 425, and the last 495 with a 100 yard zero. I could tweak the zero to move those around some or I could tweak the ammo, I won't do either, I will just verify that my numbers are correct and call it good. Your data will be different. Edited September 21, 2015 by Stlhead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkim Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 So, they aren't placed at an average drop, or based upon a common ammunition or anything? I'm trying to figure out why this is better than the other donut style reticles with mil measurements below. I like the cleaner sight picture of this scope, but I also like the donut reticles for close targets. The only reason I went with this reticle was that it seems to be the prevailing style, but I am yet to see exactly why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJW Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 So, they aren't placed at an average drop, or based upon a common ammunition or anything? I'm trying to figure out why this is better than the other donut style reticles with mil measurements below. I like the cleaner sight picture of this scope, but I also like the donut reticles for close targets. The only reason I went with this reticle was that it seems to be the prevailing style, but I am yet to see exactly why. Most BDCs I have seen are based on 5.56 NATO, and I don't get anywhere near that muzzle velocity from anything I actually shoot out of my rifles. I prefer a .5 mil reticle over a BDC, but with good data and a good tool like Strelok+ you can make just about anything work for 3-Gun distances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 The BRT has a line at 3.59", a dot at 7.19", a line at 10.8", a dot at 14.4", and a line at 18". Wide cross hair starts t 21.6" G4B line at 4.7", 7.2", and 10". Wide vertical cross hair starts at 21.6" Besides the last 2 aiming points on the BRT, the G4B is laid out oddly similar. I don't know why they picked what they did, but it seems the marks will work for me, not many shots past 500 in our game, usually only a couple a year for me, nearly every longer target is between 100-350 yards. Between the first and second hash marks on the G4B, and extending to just past the first hash mark on the BRT. With the G4B I am loosing a 588 and a 647 aiming point with a 100 yard zero, not things I would miss, but I would not be bothered much to have them, the cleaner view is quite nice. For my money, I am going to call the aiming points nearly a draw, with the G4B getting the nod for cleanliness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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