RangerTrace Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Barrel accuracy testing is usually done using a barrel fixture rather than with the entire firearm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pries81 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I'm trying to make the same decision, DVC vs Apeiro. Would someone just tell me what to buy, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterthefish Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I'm trying to make the same decision, DVC vs Apeiro. Would someone just tell me what to buy, lol. Buy both! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaunk Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Buy whatever looks fun to you. I got an Apeiro because I've always liked the look and found one a good smith went through and tinkered with. If you don't like it, somebody is always willing to take it off your hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrdchaos Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) I have held the Apeiro, I haven't held the dvc. I really like the feel and balance of the Apeiro. Edited October 22, 2015 by lrdchaos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pries81 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I'm trying to make the same decision, DVC vs Apeiro. Would someone just tell me what to buy, lol.Buy both! Fantastic idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmetzler01 Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 (edited) I have both a DVC and Aperio in 40 s&w and the DVC is more accurate. But in fairness, they are not marketed as the same product as the DVC is the "out of the box racer" and Aperio is not marketed the same way. Although load is a factor for accuracy, there are other variables that I haven't seen anyone mention in this thread (not saying anyone here doesn't know what these variables are and not trolling). Looking at the Aperio, here's the differences I've seen: The barrel lock up and fitting to the frame : there is more machining in fitting the barrel due to the relief required for the island. The ideal lock-up to 1/8 inch out of battery is between .025 to .050; my Apeiro is at .058 (my DVC is .47). Further inspection reveals STI did not machine the slide enough as there are chatter marks on both sides of the island, as well as, excessive wear on points on top of the barrel. Although the DVC has more machining in slide and frame cuts, the Aperio is the only product in the STI line-up that has this extra element (the island barrel) and their processes are still evolving to mass produce high quality for the Aperio. If they didn't have issues in sourcing the barrels, I think they would have this hammered out by now. I'm in the process of fixing these issues. The Aperio recoil spring is a dual spring recoil master vs. the single spring in the DVC. I'm in the process of fixing this as well. The Aperio does not have the double undercut trigger guard on the DVC; I'm ordering an SVI metal grip with a double undercut trigger guard so I won't have it until the end of Q1 2016. The ignition kit is not the same as the DVC as it has a lightened hammer and worked trigger. I'll have this fixed in the next 2 months. The point I'm making is it is not an apple to apples comparison as the DVC is specifically built to be an out of the box race gun and the Aperio is not marketed to be, nor built to be, an out of the box race gun. The question I have is when both platforms have the same parts, will the DVC still perform better? Edited October 25, 2015 by wmetzler01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3djedi Posted October 25, 2015 Author Share Posted October 25, 2015 I have both a DVC and Aperio in 40 s&w and the DVC is more accurate. But in fairness, they are not marketed as the same product as the DVC is the "out of the box racer" and Aperio is not marketed the same way. Although load is a factor for accuracy, there are other variables that I haven't seen anyone mention in this thread (not saying anyone here doesn't know what these variables are and not trolling). Looking at the Aperio, here's the differences I've seen: The barrel lock up and fitting to the frame : there is more machining in fitting the barrel due to the relief required for the island. The ideal lock-up to 1/8 inch out of battery is between .025 to .050; my Apeiro is at .058 (my DVC is .47). Further inspection reveals STI did not machine the slide enough as there are chatter marks on both sides of the island, as well as, excessive wear on points on top of the barrel. Although the DVC has more machining in slide and frame cuts, the Aperio is the only product in the STI line-up that has this extra element (the island barrel) and their processes are still evolving to mass produce high quality for the Aperio. If they didn't have issues in sourcing the barrels, I think they would have this hammered out by now. I'm in the process of fixing these issues. The Aperio recoil spring is a dual spring recoil master vs. the single spring in the DVC. I'm in the process of fixing this as well. The Aperio does not have the double undercut trigger guard on the DVC; I'm ordering an SVI metal grip with a double undercut trigger guard so I won't have it until the end of Q1 2016. The ignition kit is not the same as the DVC as it has a lightened hammer and worked trigger. I'll have this fixed in the next 2 months. The point I'm making is it is not an apple to apples comparison as the DVC is specifically built to be an out of the box race gun and the Aperio is not marketed to be, nor built to be, an out of the box race gun. The question I have is when both platforms have the same parts, will the DVC still perform better? Interesting....... I had the same results with my DVC and Apeiro, accuracy wise. The STI website claims that because of the island barrel there is tighter lockup though....... here is the exact text "The cuts also improve barrel to slide lockup meaning increased accuracy as well" SO you would think that with an AET barrel (Accuracy Enhancing Technology) and tighter lockup you would have better accuracy out of the Apeiro. But it's not the case for me. I could get a nice tight group at 25 yards with my DVC and a glock 17 but with the Apeiro it's pretty much all over the "A" zone....... I have the DVC style grip on mine as well as the Dawson tooless guide rod. Haven't changed any of the ignition system though.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmetzler01 Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 (edited) I should be able to fix the problem, but if I can't I can send it back or have it accu railed. Of the two, it'd be worth it to have it accu railed. Not sure if I want STI messing with this again as their processes for this product are still evolving. If it were the DVC, it would go right back as they are very skilled with the standard products. Again, I'm not shitting on STI as I have purchased many of their guns -and I will buy many more - just like to see the QC tighten up on the Apeiro. Edited October 25, 2015 by wmetzler01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonglee0507 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Get the apeiro but make sure that it has the schueman aet island barrel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmetzler01 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Get the apeiro but make sure that it has the schueman aet island barrel That is what I have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pries81 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Thanks for the info guys. I'm going to see what comes up for sale here at the end of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEP44 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Get the apeiro but make sure that it has the schueman aet island barrel At this point this is nothing more than your opinion based on your assumptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonglee0507 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 (edited) Get the apeiro but make sure that it has the schueman aet island barrelAt this point this is nothing more than your opinion based on your assumptions.At this point i think you forgot that you starteda thread about the sti apeiro not using the schuemann's anymore. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Edited October 26, 2015 by bonglee0507 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEP44 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 But so far nobody has been able to compare the 2 versions of the Apeiro and yet you seem to know that one is better than the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonglee0507 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) But so far nobody has been able to compare the 2 versions of the Apeiro and yet you seem to know that one is better than the other.Yes i know bec i have a stock sti with a sti barrel and a custom gun w a schuemann barrel and it's common knowledge that schuemann barrels are better than sti barrels. In the old sti website they capitalize on the apeiro's schuemann barrel making it their no 1 selling point for the said gun bec they know for a fact that shuemann is better. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited October 27, 2015 by bonglee0507 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3djedi Posted October 27, 2015 Author Share Posted October 27, 2015 Why does the DVC with an sti barrel have better accuracy with every type of bullet I tried over the Apeiro with the AET barrel? Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonglee0507 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Why does the DVC with an sti barrel have better accuracy with every type of bullet I tried over the Apeiro with the AET barrel? Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk How come world class shooters dont use the sti barrel amd how come one lady shooter dumped her dvc in the last uspsa nationals?| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3djedi Posted October 27, 2015 Author Share Posted October 27, 2015 I was hoping you had an answer for me...... I really don't get it supposedly tighter lockup and accuracy enhancing barrel technology but still better results with the DVC and ZEV glock 17..... Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3djedi Posted October 27, 2015 Author Share Posted October 27, 2015 Why did she dump her DVC? I dumped mine too. I sold the dvc and kept the apeiro because even though the accuracy was not as good I love the sight tracker! Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonglee0507 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 I was hoping you had an answer for me...... I really don't get it supposedly tighter lockup and accuracy enhancing barrel technology but still better results with the DVC and ZEV glock 17..... Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk I dont know about your gun, maybe sti made a bad fit or there's something wrong with how yoy load your amo. Here's mine Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmetzler01 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 I was hoping you had an answer for me...... I really don't get it supposedly tighter lockup and accuracy enhancing barrel technology but still better results with the DVC and ZEV glock 17..... Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk The big three factors that impact 1911/2011 accuracy are: slide to frame fit, barrel to frame/slide fit, and trigger. Of the three, the first 2 are critical and if you get those wrong the accuracy will suffer as will performance and reliability. Yes there are other factors that impact accuracy but all gunsmiths and the AGI agree these are most critical. I can only talk to my Aperio that has the AET barrel: the out of battery lock-up was slightly out of spec as I stated in my post above. A bit of stoning to the barrel lugs and the points of lock-up on the barrel and I'm in spec at .040; within the .025/.050 spec. Second item was the slide relief for the island was cut too tight, some light stoning and this is fixed as well. The last item I'm fixing then I will test it again is the trigger & ignition kit which will make it a better match up to the DVC (although I should swap the recoil spring while I'm at it). As for yours, you could have any of the issues I mentioned above or others such as a defective barrel, seating crimping dye issues, plus something else we don't know. Pushing all the data aside, the most important metric is how it "feels" in your hand. For me, having so much weight on the nose of the gun with no counter weight in the handle or rear exaggerated a bad habit I have of occasionally sending a shot low. I didn't like this feeling so much I almost sold the gun, but I'm going to enhance a few items and see if it improves. Pro shooters change equipment all the time mostly because of sponsorship deals: what matters the most in the end is how the gun feels to you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonglee0507 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) I was hoping you had an answer for me...... I really don't get it supposedly tighter lockup and accuracy enhancing barrel technology but still better results with the DVC and ZEV glock 17..... Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk The big three factors that impact 1911/2011 accuracy are: slide to frame fit, barrel to frame/slide fit, and trigger. Of the three, the first 2 are critical and if you get those wrong the accuracy will suffer as will performance and reliability. Yes there are other factors that impact accuracy but all gunsmiths and the AGI agree these are most critical.I can only talk to my Aperio that has the AET barrel: the out of battery lock-up was slightly out of spec as I stated in my post above. A bit of stoning to the barrel lugs and the points of lock-up on the barrel and I'm in spec at .040; within the .025/.050 spec. Second item was the slide relief for the island was cut too tight, some light stoning and this is fixed as well. The last item I'm fixing then I will test it again is the trigger & ignition kit which will make it a better match up to the DVC (although I should swap the recoil spring while I'm at it). As for yours, you could have any of the issues I mentioned above or others such as a defective barrel, seating crimping dye issues, plus something else we don't know. Pushing all the data aside, the most important metric is how it "feels" in your hand. For me, having so much weight on the nose of the gun with no counter weight in the handle or rear exaggerated a bad habit I have of occasionally sending a shot low. I didn't like this feeling so much I almost sold the gun, but I'm going to enhance a few items and see if it improves. Pro shooters change equipment all the time mostly because of sponsorship deals: what matters the most in the end is how the gun feels to you... I suspect its also the fitting done by sti. I have seen a lot of factory sti's that broke its barrel link and lower lugs due to wrong BARREL TIMING. Their barrels are always over cutSti removed too much material on the VIS kkm barrel on the left, sti barrel on the right Note: when they cut the VIS the barrel link slot is exposed Top view Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited October 27, 2015 by bonglee0507 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmetzler01 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Wow that is a big difference when you see a side by side view... Although I do like that STI has a bit more radius on the inside of the barrel, but I agree they've removed a lot. That is a high impact area, you need some thickness there. It must be faster to cut there than to cut multiple spots on the hood. (Totally guessing) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonglee0507 Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 (edited) Too much stress on then link that's why i see many factory sti's with broken links or lugs Edited October 29, 2015 by bonglee0507 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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