brian45acp Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Can someone please link me to best 9mm finish reamer to buy. Also any good article or video on a how to. I hear it's not too hard and I have friends that know how to do this but I would like to study up on it myself. Basically my cz barrles are just a tad short and brass on the longer side is causing the barrel to not slide up and lock into the lugs. This has been driving me nuts chasing reloading and ammo issues and finally I figured this out. In short what happens is that the rounds all pass the plunk test but know fed from the mag lock the slide up and it won't go into battery. I narrowed this down to the brass and found 2 of the same head stamps one of which will chamber one won't. The difference is one is on the shorter side of spec the other is 15 thousandths longer and prevent the barrel from locking up. A cz barrel has the brass hang out over the barrel hood so I don't need to remove but maybe 5-10 thousandths is all. On the rami it uses a traditional barrel like a glock and I can see the brass hang over the barrel good which it shouldn't on that setup. For these reasons my options are ream the barrel or hand pick brass that is not at max length of .755 which gives me the issues. Anything under .750 seems to be fine but a little filth in the chamber may change that so reaming makes sense to me at this point. Any help would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWFAN Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I bought the Manson from Brownells and it has worked just fine for my CZs and 1911s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian45acp Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) Could you be so kind to link me to it. There are so many it's confusing. I need to make some calls to the cz gunsmiths and confirm this before I go cutting on the barrel but I'm quite sure this is my issue. I found this in my reasearch http://shop.pacifictoolandgauge.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=309_71&products_id=1071&zenid=lestrr6kn6jmlr54bleni7klp2 Edited June 23, 2015 by brian45acp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolguy Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) I will pick Manson or Pacific Gauge & Tool but not Clymer. The 1st 2 have proper cutting edge geometry that cuts smooth & easy. Clymer doesn't have enough back clearance behind the cutting edge, so does not cut well or leave as good a finish. www.mansonreamers.com Edited June 23, 2015 by Toolguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWFAN Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/barrel-tools/reamers/centerfire-reamers/nowlin-chamber-reamers-prod7740.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian45acp Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 Awesome, thank you. I have not used one but am not the average idiot so with some research I will figure it out. As for the pilot I understand this centers it in the barrel as to cut evenly but here on that tool is this pilot? Also when others say throat vs ream which would be what I need? Seems I need to remove some material to lengthen the head spacing. If my brass is sticking out too far after it head spaces then I'm guessing this is reaming the barrel. My bullets aren't the issue and aren't touching the rifling. It's the brass that's too long due to short chamber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian45acp Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 I talked to cajun gun works guys and got some good info. Apparently even if I did need to ream the barrel its not something to do by hand. In my case I would need just 3-5 thousandths off and by hand that isnt going to be so easy. More importantly they never had to ream a 9mm CZ so i have some other issue going on likely with the brass. I need to investigate this more and go tinker in the garage. What ever the issue is my glocks take the rounds my cz wont which is frustrating and gratifying to my glock loving buddies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
himurax13 Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 OP, are you sure this is not an extractor issue? This could happen if you have too stiff of an extractor spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian45acp Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 They asked me that and its new and I havent added a extra power spring or anything. I could take the extractor out and hit sides with 1500 paper to be sure there is nothing hanging it up. I figured I had to take it out and I wanted to touch up the breech face a little as well with the 1500. If it is a brass issue this would fix anything but it cant hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nugget Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 A past forum, http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28322&view=&hl=&fromsearch=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian45acp Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 thanks. I did read that one already. I am some what confident its not a gun issue. 4 CZs all doing the same thing on the same round mean it cant be the gun. Im buyinf once fired bulk brass and its all mixed up. I think there is just some crap in there. I need to go inspect a few more cases which dont fit and see whats going on. CZ does have a short chamber but its not like this is a must do modification so I dont know for certain what to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Hello: Are you sure the bullets are not touching the rifling in the barrel? My Shadow had this problem when I loaded to 1 145". I went in and throated the barrel some and all the problems went away and it even made it more accurate. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian45acp Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 I'm positive. I removed the bullet from the brass to be sure and still it won't lock up. I spent more time tonight on this and found more brass which is too long and out of spec. The chamber is so short each round has to be quite perfect. I am scared to mess with this myself but guys at our local match are gunsmiths and build open guns etc. I know he can ream it for me but I feel like I need to send it to Cajun gun works to have it done right. It would be about $60 per gun and I have 5. Another option is to buy better brass but it doesn't mean one piece won't be too long and cause the same issue again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWFAN Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) How long is the brass that fails? What head stamp is it? Edited June 24, 2015 by DWFAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Hello: I would take it to your local builder. Just take the worst one first and see how it works out. If they have go/no go gauges for 9mm they can check it for you also. You would have to send just the barrel not the whole gun. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastly Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 If the chamber length of your barrels are out of spec (what is spec for 9mm here?) then why not call CZ? Why not ask them for their spec? Have you measured with a depth gauge as mentioned in the link? If this was a common problem, why aren't we hearing more about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian45acp Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 Well thats exactly my thought that since we arent hearing about this its something on my end which I have yet to nail down. Head stamp doest seem to matter and is random so its not narrowed to this. I think max OAL is .754 so as soon as I get brass right there or just over I see the issue come up. With the slide off I slip these rounds under the extractor and try to lock the barrel up and cases at .757 wont go. These are out of spec obviously so I am not sure this means much but they do drop in the glock barrel. The solution to ream out 5 CZ barrels doesnt seem like the logical choice to me. Especially with the Cajun Gun Works crew say they never had to do this over the last 5 years which means lots of examples. I am stuck on this idea of the brass being too long but perhaps there is something else I am not observing. I hope I am making sense here in explaining whats going on. As a round begins to chamber its slides under the extractor and the head stamp slides up the breech face. During this time the barrel is angles upward and the barrel lugs lock up to the slide lugs. Right at the point where the lock up should occur mine wont go any further. With brass that is .750 it locks up fine but I still feel a little resistance. The lock is so tight an tolerances so close perhaps this contributes to the accuracy these guns have but its giving me a fit for slightly out of spec brass. At the point the barrel sticks and wont lock up I tried flexing the extractor a bit to see if it helped and it did not so I dont think the extractor is to blame here. Since all my CZs do the same thing honestly it cant be the guns. I even took my gun smith hammer and tapped the bullet very short and then ran the round in the LEE FCD as to be sure the bullet wasnt the issue for OAL. Everything case gauges just fine and will feed in the glock. I could at this point buy all new starline brass and I would at least know the history of it and if the issue goes away then I know the brass I was getting is the issue. Im stumped here guys. I think its the brass and sitting here playing with the guns isnt getting me any where. I dont have a depth gauge to measure the head space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWFAN Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Starline comes on the long end of spec.. I wouldn't go that route. I reamed my barrel 2-3 thou (by hand) to fit Starline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian45acp Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) So it seems reaming is the answer. I do agree though as to why this doesn't come up more. I do see many threads on the cz forum about reaming and seems it's split between those who do and don't. Based on what I'm seeing the brass needs to head space 5 thousandths deeper to be on the safe side for reliability on mixed brass. Can this really be safely done by hand? I may just pack all 5 slides and barrels up then send to the Cajun crew and be done with it. This crap drives me nuts and I can't help but appreciate glock but there is nothing nice about them. The cz is a dream to run in competition and even with it being stock down to even stock springs. I got rid of all my tumbling stuff and love buying once fired cleaned brass. I can shoot and leave it behind and not deal with running around like a crack head fighting for it. With these rakes and rollers people use they snatch it up as it ejects from the gun. I hate fighting with them over it. So you guys already linked me to the reamer. My buddy showed me the T handles from harbor freight. For oil do I need anything special? For 5 barrels I think I should learn to do this and just take care of it. I wish I had a video of it on a pistol barrel though. Edited June 24, 2015 by brian45acp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powder Finger Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 before doing anything. take the slide off > remove spring/barrel/extractor (clean everything). put your long case (no bullet) in the chamber put the barrel in the slide and see if the barrel will move up into battery. if not then trim the case .001-.002 and try again. when the barrel moves up then the brass length is your chamber length. now decide to ream chamber deeper or use shorter brass. if you ream the you know about how far to go brass length at start - length at end. if you ream just use tap magic or similar cutting oil. as for cutting just go real slow, you can put a case in and measure between hood and case with calipers and cut up to your number figured out above + .001-.005. saami shows .754 for 9mm. http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/index.cfm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolguy Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 For 5 guns I would get a finish chamber reamer and a set of go-no go gages. On this you want to ream by hand. It is easy to take only a little at a time. If you motorize the reamer you can be way too far before you know it. A few thou longer chamber can make a finicky gun run well. Once you do the first barrel you will see it's so easy there is no reason to pay someone else $300 to do it. And you will have the tools to do future barrels. Don't go past the no go gage length and you will be fine. Even if you do go a little long you will still probably be OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWFAN Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 I agree with Toolguy. When I put my Go Gauge in the chamber, it was very evident that the chamber was short. A couple turns with a reamer and check again until the Go Gauge or the longest pc of brass you have will sit flush or go into lock up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian45acp Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 You guys are great: So now I need to understand this no/go gauge. I am not sure what it is or how to use it. Is there a link for this thing? Dont forget that these CZ barrels dont use a hood like any other gun I have seen. The hood sits below the brass and keys up into the breech face which has a raised area above the level of where the firing pin area is. This wont change much in terms of the reaming process but going too far would screw up the intention of this design. I am confident that just 5 thousandths or less would fix all this drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian45acp Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 Ok so I am going to get a list going: Rimless Pistol Cartridge, 9mm Luger Finisher Mfr Part: F9MMLUGB http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/barrel-tools/reamers/centerfire-reamers/rimless-pistol-cartridges-prod40866.aspx http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/general-gunsmith-tools/taps-dies/tapping-cutting-fluids/universal-do-drill-prod1120.aspx Which one do I need? Looks like the manson reamer is 3/8 shank and this T handle goes up to 1/2 inch so I think thats the right one. http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/general-gunsmith-tools/taps-dies/tap-die-wrenches/tap-wrenches-prod6882.aspx 395-312-088WBTap Wrench Wrench No. 1, 9 1/4" long, fits 0 to 1/2" Mfr Part: 12088 http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/measuring-tools/headspace-gauges/clymer-headspace-gauges-no-go-prod40876.aspx 184-100-341WBNO GO, 9mm Luger Mfr Part: NG9MMLUG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powder Finger Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 sorry, chamber on saami is .754 min .776 max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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