brian45acp Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I have a 1050 with GSI feeder so its using the GSI tool head and GSI seating die. I have had this before on my 650 as well so its not something new. After seating the bullet some times I am getting a blunt ring or bulge at the base of the bullet. They have been problematic in my CZ chambers which are quite tight. Any idea how to get rid of this bulge? I seen the LEE FCD but I am not a fan of LEE so if there is something similar that I could use that would be great. I dont think there is a way to eliminate the bulge from happening but I figure there must be a die that will resize the finished round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 What caliber and what bullet ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian45acp Posted June 15, 2015 Author Share Posted June 15, 2015 sorry 9mm and I am using zero 125grn JHP. I have been reading and I think I am going to order EGW undersized die for station 1 and the Lee FCD for the last station. I hate Lee and think there products are junk so I hope these dont let me down like their other products have. I like to think they cant go wrong on a carbide sizing die and since I learned EGW has Lee make them their dies that seems like a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 the lee FCD is really the only choice to fix it short of stopping it happening in the first place. the undersize sizing die may or may not help but the FCD certainly will post size the finished round. it's a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian45acp Posted June 15, 2015 Author Share Posted June 15, 2015 I ordered both dies the EGW and the FCD. I need to check my press and its possible I need to adjust the shell plate index because I think the bullet is starting itself crooked and bulging the brass to the side as the bullets seats. This would explain why randomnly I am getting crushed cases in the seating station. So the FCD will not just get the bulge out of the bottom of the case but the full length of it? This would in theory be the best idea for a truly perfect finished round. I am not sure why someone other then LEE hasnt made one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 You certainly don't want to compound the error of a tilted bullet by running it through a FCD die. Get that problem corrected first. It may be that your shell plate may not be stopping in the correct position to enable the bullet to be seated correctly, I'd check that out first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian45acp Posted June 15, 2015 Author Share Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) Most ammo I see has a bulge near base of the bullet but some of my reloads come out perfect so I'm not sure what's causing it. There is so much going on with a 1050 and GSI feeder it takes a lot of work to dial in Edited June 15, 2015 by brian45acp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 There are several brands of brass that have a ledge inside the case and if you are loading a long bullet, or loading short, it's possible the base of the bullet is hitting the ledge and bulging. Look inside some of your brass and see if you have any of them. If you do, a lot of people don't/won't use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian45acp Posted June 15, 2015 Author Share Posted June 15, 2015 I never saw a "ledge" in any case. All are straight wall but maybe some +p have a bevel at the bottom for extra strength and weigh a few grains more but the side walls are all straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 The brass with ledges I've seen so far is Ammoload, IMT, and FM. The Ammoload is the one that got me and separated in the chamber. However, there was no bulge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterthefish Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I never saw a "ledge" in any case. All are straight wall but maybe some +p have a bevel at the bottom for extra strength and weigh a few grains more but the side walls are all straight. gng4life is right about the brands he mentioned having a distinct and visible ledge. That's unlikely to be causing your trouble. Are the bulged cases consistently one type of brass? CBC and one type of Speer (Speer ~ 14) bulge on me with longer bullets. If it's not consistently one or two headstamps, it's likely the lack of bevel on the base of the Zero bullets. You can try more flare or a sleeved seating die which may help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian45acp Posted June 16, 2015 Author Share Posted June 16, 2015 I have yet to narrow it down to head stamps. I already added more bell and it seems to be causing more issues and smashing cases so I am going to back that off like it was. The next time around I think it will be montana golds that I will try. I have about 6k more of these Zeros to use. They are nice bullets so I dont think they are the issue but who knows. So this FCD is supposed to straighten out the entire length of the cartridge as the final step? If so that would be perfect and solve my issue. My buddy seems to think it just adds crimp but I thought that was the standard dies like my Dillon crimp die. The difference with the FCD I thought was it resized all the way down to the base to remove any bulges. I hope it doesnt just remove a bulge near the head stamp because my issue is about mid length in the brass right at the bullet base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taadski Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 So this FCD is supposed to straighten out the entire length of the cartridge as the final step? If so that would be perfect and solve my issue….The difference with the FCD I thought was it resized all the way down to the base to remove any bulges. Good thread timing… My understanding is that this is exactly what the Lee factory crimp die does. It was a solution offered by some local SMEs for some similar problems. I load on a 650 but I recently changed bullet weights from a 124 to a 147 (both Berry's FPs). The 147 bullet is obviously longer but b/c of chamber length issues I needed to stay with a short-ish OAL. This resulted in a very similar situation to what you're describing; an occasional slight bulge at the base of the bullet and some failures to go completely into battery (without the bullet hitting the rifling). This is in a gun with 40,000 rounds down the tube (with the 124 FPs at the same OAL) without issue. I ordered the Lee FCD yesterday after being strongly encouraged in that direction. t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Yes the lee fcd has a crimp ring and a carbide sizing insert. It sizes the whole finished round. You want to adjust it so it's just touching the shell plate (that sets the sizing) then adjust crimp with the little knob on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dillon Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Be aware that 9x19mm is a tapered case, not a straightwall case. How the Dillon size die is designed, the upper portion of the case is sized straight, and slightly smaller than bullet diameter. lower, the case tapers to wider at the base. When a bullet is seated, you will see where the bullet stops going into the case. This is intentional. This prevents the bullet from being shoved back into the case when it hits the feed ramp. The base of the bullet should bulge out the case uniformly around the circumference of the case. If it does not, then loosen your die lock rings on ALL dies (including the powder measure), and with cases/cartridges in all stations, pull the handle down, and tighten the lock rings with cases/cartridges up in all the dies. This centers the dies in the threaded holes in the toolhead. I personally use a CZ SP01 Shadow for USPSA Production division, and have no issues with a124 grain bullets, whether jacketed or plated, using mixed brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian45acp Posted June 16, 2015 Author Share Posted June 16, 2015 Thanks for the tip. I m using GSI bullet feeder so this may change some things as well. The bulge ring is not even and more toward one side which is why it's locking up in the chamber. What about the pawl arm stop set screw hidden on station 5? Is it possible that because of my GSI tool head I need to adjust the shell plate indexing a bit to better align with the seating die? The few crushed cases I'm getting I think indicate my index is slightly off and possibly also why the bullet is bulging the brass more toward one side. How can that set screw be adjusted? I mean which direction of turn changes th shell plate clock wise or counter clockwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dillon Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 This set screw stops the index lever from overtravelling. The lever should stop moving at the same time the detent ball locates the shellplate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 There may be quite a bit going on here. Are those ZERO's .356? That will add to the bulge. Going to a Udie should make the bulge more pronounced if anything since it is sizing the case down an extra 1/1000th. Long ago U tried a 1050 actuator(funnel) on my 550 to eliminate the cases sticking. It solved that problem great but it created very off centered loads that bulged on one side because the neck was not being expanded properly. Perhaps your expanding process is too light as it plays a huge part in centering the bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian45acp Posted June 16, 2015 Author Share Posted June 16, 2015 So add more bell for expansion? Yes the zeros are what I'm using. They measure up to .355 though. The U die isn't necessary only but the FCD should help after the bullet is seated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 So add more bell for expansion? ed The 1050 bells and expands separately if I undertand properly. I would say expansion needs adjusted , not the bell. The GSI may do the expanding and need adjusted? I just don't know the 1050/GSI combo that well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian45acp Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share Posted June 17, 2015 No the 1050 is the same as all dillon powder drop stations. The powder is placed and case belled at the same time. The GSI is just another tool head so that a station isnt lost like the other type of bullet feeders. Its a PITA to get right but I think its just about dialed in and I will try the new advice you guys have all given me this weekend. Along with the FCD and U die I should be good to go. Perhaps those arent needed but seems like good insurance. I did find a primer stuck near the pawl today after taking the suggestions on here and I think that may have been part of my issue. I wasnt getting crushed cases before then all of a sudden it was happening so it makes sense something went wrong. The Dillon Rep had some good advice and I never thought to mess with the lock rings. Seems like a good idea. After all these dies have been locked down and adjusted 1 by 1 maybe there is some forces happening there that tweak the shell plate. By loosening the lock rings with the rounds all in the dies then locking them down may center it just enough to fix the bulge issue. Obviously those guys know what they are doing. Thanks again and I will report back what comes of this so others may learn as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) I'm pretty sure the powder actuator on a 1050 only bells the case mouth as it funnels powder into the case. A regular Dillon powder funnel bells and expands the neck to center the bullet. The 1050 must expand the neck of the case somewhere besides the powder drop. After a quick search it looks like the 1050 expands the case mouth at the swaging station. prior to powder drop. Edited June 17, 2015 by Sarge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian45acp Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) Crap, I didn't know that. In some research I found some guys replacing the pawl and swags rod with after market high strength stuff. I decided it wasn't needed and would likely make a more expensive part fail. But in reading about it saw that the swage station should be set using a non sized case. Now I know why it was so hard to screw that die down. I need to try it again with a spent case that hasn't been resized yet. Edited June 17, 2015 by brian45acp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian45acp Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) Just wanted to update you guys: I appreciate all the help and all the advice helped me produce a finer finished round and tuned press. So its not a ammo issue its a brass issue. Having said that I love the new U die and FCD. Before my bullets would have a mushroom dent from the taper crimp and it was a very fine adjustment to eliminate that and yet still have enough crimp. It would also take 1 not so hard hit of the bullet puller to extract a bullet. With the FCD crimp is perfect and takes 5 or more hard hits to remove the bullet and there is no sign of it having been crimped on the bullet itself. It comes out perfect. Here is what I found and its going to be a CZ thing I have to address or buy better brass: From the CZ forum Ok I figured it out. The brass is long and out of spec on some cases. Both pieces are Blazer and one is 15 thousandths longer then the other. The only solution is to ream the barrel about 5 thousandths longer to assure all pieces feed reliably. I dont want to ream my barrels but I dont see another option. You can see the difference in both just with the eye so its quite a bit. With just the slide in my hand and barrel I pulled both bullets and fit the brass under the extractor and then tried to lock the barrel up. On the longer piece of brass you can feel it bind and drag up the breech face. I have read some of you guys polish the breech face but I dont see how that could help. Possibly if the breech face were really smooth the brass might slide up into position better. With the gun together on some questionable pieces if I let the slide rip forward with the stock recoil spring the round will jam itself into place. If you guys think a polished breech face would help how should I go about that? I figured I would remove the extractor and use 1500 paper on plastic flat head driver tip or similar and just have to work it back and forth. Not a lot of room in there to work with though. Edited June 23, 2015 by brian45acp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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