Stage "Prop" question

[sbaker5]

So, I was at local 3 gun comp this past weekend, basically a club match. There was one stage that was majority shotgun. You had to hit a popper that activated a sliding target. They set it up so the shooters had to move to one particular shooting location in order to hit the popper. He popper was beside a plastic barrel meant to obscure the popper, forcing shooters to shoot from the prescribed shooting spot. However, from one particular location a portion of the popper, and I mean only a slight portion of the popper, was sticking up above the plastic barrel. By shooting from this location it would have saved a lot of time and put you in a better position to hit the moving target. We asked the stage RO if we could shoot the popper from the more advantageous location. He acted slightly shocked and initially said yes but then said if we shoot the barrel and made it move at all he would call a procedural. My question is this... Can he arbitrarily make it a procedural because the barrel moves? It wasn't stated in the stage description that it couldn't be hit. It's almost like he got offended because we came up with a smart way to hit the popper. Just wanted to know your thoughts and more importantly the rules around this. Thank you in advance.

[ChuckS]

3 Gun? What was the rule set used for the match? Outlaw matches can do pretty much anything they want...

Edited June 9, 2015 by ChuckS

[sbaker5]

Don't really know. Wasn't 3 gun nation rules. Seemed like some basic 3 gun rules but don't know if there was an official set of rules. Probably just local club rules.

[Jakobi]

Assuming a USPSA type ruleset, you could try to call a malfunction and argue that it was a shot through the barrel (hard cover) but only if the target is completely obsecured. If it's partly exposed then how do you prove that it was the shot through the barrel that cause the popper to fall? I've also never seen bird shot go through two sides of a barrel. This sounds like a case where the RO got pissy about people gaming a stage.

[SayHelloToMyLittleFriend]

My understanding is unless otherwise stated in the stage procedure that's not a procedural. He should have just said no you cannot shoot it from that location.

Edited June 9, 2015 by SayHelloToMyLittleFriend

[sbaker5]

Thanks. I was just wondering and didn't know enough to even intellegently discuss it with him. He said we could it from the "alternate" location but if the barrel moved it would be a procedural. Just seemed odd to me but I also know the RO's have a tough job and do it on a volunteer basis so I can't complain too much.

[CHA-LEE]

Without knowing which sanctioning bodies rules were used for the match its impossible for anyone to answer your question accurately. If it was an "Outlaw" 3 Gun match with home grown rules, then only the match director will be able to answer your question because they are the one defining the rules and how they should/could be enforced.

[FullMetalJacket]

If you leave it open it can be shot IMO

[g.willikers]

Local club match - just do what the RO sez.

As long as he's consistent with everyone about it, there should be no cause of complaint with the decision.

Edited July 4, 2015 by g.willikers

[Forrest Halley]

If you had asked to see the Rules of the match would he have had to fumble through his tactical vest? Did he twitch and randomly exclaim Cover! and then mumble about tactical something or others? I kid...

Because I said so, No! Because I didn't think of it, and It's cheating because I can't do it that fast......famous lines of goobers at a match who happen to be running things.

Not saying it happened this way, but do also consider:

On the flip side it's no fun to have somebody ask 20 questions about what if I do it this way...during the stage brief. As a stage designer you don't always see every little quirk in a stage until after it's on the ground and sometimes you leave a hole in the fence and have to amend on the fly to keep the stage from being circumvented. Local matches should have patience on both sides of the timer.

[turbopower18]

If they didnt want you to shoot it from said location it should be completely hidden. I went threw a similar situation with a RO at a local USPSA Match. He got mad because i gamed the stage and got mad and threw the stage out saying it was unsafe. Cant argue with a CRO on something he feels is unsafe. However if you have read the rule book enough you can find a reason for him to have to throw out another stage in said match wink wink lol