Acceptable Velocity Spread

[Rising Sight]

I am getting a spread of 52fps with the load I'm using. I am still very new to reloading and was just wondering if this is what I should expect. I'm loading .45ACP with a 200gr Master Blaster bullet over 5.5 grains of TightGroup.

Thanks.

[benny hill]

to much, should be about 15/18 fps

[SRT Driver]

Benny can refute this, if necessary.

45 ACP is a large case and tightgroup is a fine powder. TG does not fill up much of the case leaving a lot of air space.

Your SD's and extreme spreads will decrease as you find a powder that fills up more of the case. Which means a slower powder, in most cases.

This does not mean that this load is not accurate..might be very accurate.

Win 231 is very similar to TG. Quite a bit of air space which produces larger extreme spreads. But accuracy is good.

[Rising Sight]

When I tried using 231 I couldn't get enough velocity to make major. I am assuming that is because of the 4" barrel that my pistol has. Wouldn't I get even less velocity with a slower burning powder?

[JD45]

No. The fastest load possible for any weight bullet is almost always reached with a slow powder. In a .45 you can make major with all sorts of faster burning powders. If all you want is top velocity, Hodgdon's manual lists Longshot as their fastest load. Big charges usually equal big noise.

The shooters here all seem to like Titegroup, Clays, one of the VV powders, and maybe Win. Super-field(WSF)or Win. Super-target(WST).

I've been shooting Titegroup for a while in .45ACP. Spreads were 40 plus fps in mixed brass and as low as 20fps in same brass tests. They were all accurate enough.

I tried Titegroup in the .45Colt and by reducing a given load one full grain, spreads went from about 30 to 107fps. And they say that it is not position sensitive. Go figure.

[Run n Gun]

I am getting a spread of 52fps with the load I'm using. I am still very new to reloading and was just wondering if this is what I should expect. I'm loading .45ACP with a 200gr Master Blaster bullet over 5.5 grains of TightGroup.

Thanks.

I've loaded a Bazillon 45 rounds with Titgroup under several different 200gr bullets including Master Blasters. Your load is WAY hotter than necessary to make IPSC major! Try 4.7-4.8 grains.

FWIW Master Blasters over Titegroup leaded BADLY! They did alright with Ramshot “Zip” but there I was getting a wide velocity spread and the powder cost $3 a pound more than Titgroup!

Ed

[Zak Smith]

FWIW:

With 200gr West Coast plated RN, I use 5.1gr Titegroup for major .45ACP.

In .40SW, switching to small rifle primers reduced my S.D. by 2-3x.

[Allgoodhits]

I am getting a spread of 52fps with the load I'm using. I am still very new to reloading and was just wondering if this is what I should expect. I'm loading .45ACP with a 200gr Master Blaster bullet over 5.5 grains of TightGroup.

Thanks.

One variable with extreme velocity spread may be inconsistent crimp. Perhaps you set your crimp die with a "long" case and much of the other brass is slightly shorter. This will give a "light" crimp, and may contribute to the velocity spread.

Hope this helps you to eliminate a variable.

MJ

[DogmaDog]

I use WST in .45. With a 200gr LSWC bullet, I use 4.6 gr and get a 170 PF, loaded to 1.258" (or so) and 0.469" crimp, out of a 5" barrel.

WST is much less dense than titegroup, so a 4.6gr charge of WST fills a lot more of the case than the same weight of titegroup.

I've speculated that a denser powder will produce greater variation in charge weights because a reloading press measures volume, and any error in volume produces a larger error in weight with a denser powder. My speculation hasn't been confirmed, but I think it does make some sense.

My own results are only for .40 cal, where I've found that with 175 gr bullets, WST produces lower extreme spread than TG, while the spread is lower with TG when using 200 gr bullets. Go figure.

Anyway, with samples of 10 to 15 rounds over the chono, I get standard deviations of 8 to 15 fps (extreme spread is hard to interpret statistiacally). So if you're getting something in that neighborhood, I wouldn't worry about it.

Also, if you get good groups with the ammo--all the bullets go where you aim when you do your job right, then you don't really have a problem. Just load 'em hot enough that the probability of going minor at a match is really small.

DD

[Rising Sight]

No. The fastest load possible for any weight bullet is almost always reached with a slow powder. In a .45 you can make major with all sorts of faster burning powders. If all you want is top velocity, Hodgdon's manual lists Longshot as their fastest load. Big charges usually equal big noise.

The shooters here all seem to like Titegroup, Clays, one of the VV powders, and maybe Win. Super-field(WSF)or Win. Super-target(WST).

I've been shooting Titegroup for a while in .45ACP. Spreads were 40 plus fps in mixed brass and as low as 20fps in same brass tests. They were all accurate enough.

I tried Titegroup in the .45Colt and by reducing a given load one full grain, spreads went from about 30 to 107fps. And they say that it is not position sensitive. Go figure.

Maybe I should look into some slower powders then. I also used mixed brass with the results that I mentioned. Several rounds were pretty close,maybe I should try and sort my brass and see if that helps.

I've loaded a Bazillon 45 rounds with Titgroup under several different 200gr bullets including Master Blasters. Your load is WAY hotter than necessary to make IPSC major! Try 4.7-4.8 grains.

FWIW Master Blasters over Titegroup leaded BADLY! They did alright with Ramshot “Zip” but there I was getting a wide velocity spread and the powder cost $3 a pound more than Titgroup!

Ed

There is no way I can make major with 4.7-4.8 grains of TightGroup. I am getting 821-873fps with the 5.5 grain load. Maybe it's the 4" barrel that makes the difference.

One variable with extreme velocity spread may be inconsistent crimp. Perhaps you set your crimp die with a "long" case and much of the other brass is slightly shorter. This will give a "light" crimp, and may contribute to the velocity spread.

Hope this helps you to eliminate a variable.

MJ

I will look into this also.

I use WST in .45. With a 200gr LSWC bullet, I use 4.6 gr and get a 170 PF, loaded to 1.258" (or so) and 0.469" crimp, out of a 5" barrel.

WST is much less dense than titegroup, so a 4.6gr charge of WST fills a lot more of the case than the same weight of titegroup.

I've speculated that a denser powder will produce greater variation in charge weights because a reloading press measures volume, and any error in volume produces a larger error in weight with a denser powder. My speculation hasn't been confirmed, but I think it does make some sense.

My own results are only for .40 cal, where I've found that with 175 gr bullets, WST produces lower extreme spread than TG, while the spread is lower with TG when using 200 gr bullets. Go figure.

Anyway, with samples of 10 to 15 rounds over the chono, I get standard deviations of 8 to 15 fps (extreme spread is hard to interpret statistiacally). So if you're getting something in that neighborhood, I wouldn't worry about it.

Also, if you get good groups with the ammo--all the bullets go where you aim when you do your job right, then you don't really have a problem. Just load 'em hot enough that the probability of going minor at a match is really small.

DD

My OAL is 1.236 and I crimp them to .473. When I had my OAL kinda on the long side I experienced feeding problems. I could try going a little tighter with my crimp though.

Thank you all that replied.

[Allgoodhits]

FWIW when I shoot lead bullets in my .45, they must be crimped to .469 or they won't run consistently. Jacketed bullets can be crimped in the .471-.473 range and they will work. Go figure

If you have been running a .473 crimp on lead bullet with 5.5 TG and you are planning to crimp to .469, then I would back that charge "down" a tad. A fast powder, a tighter crimp will raise pressure very rapidly. CAUTION!

MJ

[Rising Sight]

I am thinking about maybe trying a slower burning powder. There has to be something that I can use that doesn't have to be loaded so hot to make major. Before I do that I think I'll try going with a tighter crimp and backing off on my load some. I'll try that first thing tommorow morning and post my results.

Thanks again.

[Duane Thomas]

I think it's important that we differentiate between Extreme Spread (ES) and Standard Deviation (SD). A 52 fps ES is not bad at all. It's your SD you want to keep under 20 fps. And a 52 fps ES will certainly do that.

[Rising Sight]

What happens if I have to run my loads through a chrono at a match and one of my rounds comes up minor? Out of the 10 rounds that I fired I had that one that was way below all the rest.

[Rising Sight]

I tightened the crimp on those master blaster bullets and still had to load them hot to make major. So, I bought some 230gr FMJs to see how they would work. I made major with a fairly light load of TightGroup with the 230gr bullets. I think I might just go ahead and use the master blasters to practice with until they are gone and switch to the FMJs. I was also thinking about possibly trying a 200gr FMJ bullet and see how that goes.

Thanks for all the help. I really need to buy more reloading manuals and just keep learning.

[dajarrel]

Thanks for all the help. I really need to buy more reloading manuals and just keep learning.

And that sir, is IMHO, the key to success.

FWIW

dj

[traxman]

I'll weigh in on this one since I shoot .45 in a 4" barrelled Kimber.

I'll qualify that I have used only WST powder so far, as my budget has limited my powder purchasing power. The bullets I have used are 230 gr LRN, 200 gr LSWC, 200 gr Plated (Berrys).

I have found that it is fairly easy to make major with the 230 gr bullets with the 4" barrel. I've used lead and jacketed bullets with a couple of different powders.

HOWEVER, I have had a heckofa time trying to get a 200gr bullet to major velocities out of that same 4" barrel. I've tested loads with three different bullet types with powder levels at maximum and above. (I carefully watch for pressure signs and I work slowly)

With the 230 gr bullets I just need a tenth or two more than what is normal for a 5" barrel. I have found that it has been difficult to get major velocity from 200gr. bullets in my 4" barrel, even with maximum loads.

I could use some helpful advice as well. (I'm still new to this as well)

traxman

[Rising Sight]

traxman.. I have tried both TightGroup and Win 231 with no luck. The 230gr bullets seem to shoot alot softer than when I load the 200gr bullets as hot as I have been. I'm going to stick with the 230gr for now.

[traxman]

I have tried both TightGroup and Win 231 with no luck. The 230gr bullets seem to shoot alot softer than when I load the 200gr bullets as hot as I have been. I'm going to stick with the 230gr for now.

Me too. I'm sticking with 230 gr for my 4" gun and shoot 200 gr. in my 5".

[Duane Thomas]

What happens if I have to run my loads through a chrono at a match and one of my rounds comes up minor? Out of the 10 rounds that I fired I had that one that was way below all the rest.

In USPSA, eight rounds are taken from the shooter. One has the bullet pulled and weighed, and that weight is punched into the chrono to calculate power factor. Three rounds are then fired over the chrono. As long as the average of those three rounds still makes Major you're okay, even if one or even two of them do not. It's the average that's important, not the performance of each individual round. If the average of those three rounds does not make Major, another three rounds are fired and the power factor recalculated using the highest three rounds of the six fired. If you still don't make Major, you have a choice, you can have the last round fired over the chrono, and the power factor will again be recalculated using the best three of the seven fired OR you can have its bullet pulled and weighed, and, if it weighs more than the first bullet that was weighed, the power factor will be recalculated using the higher weight. If none of that makes Major, you shoot the match with a Minor power factor.

[Rising Sight]

Duane Thomas... I have never been to a match that had a chrono yet. That clears it all up for me ,thanks.

[Duane Thomas]

Stick with it. You will. And yer welcome.

[Gun Geek]

I'll weigh in on this one since I shoot .45 in a 4" barrelled Kimber.

I'll qualify that I have used only WST powder so far, as my budget has limited my powder purchasing power. The bullets I have used are 230 gr LRN, 200 gr LSWC, 200 gr Plated (Berrys).

I have found that it is fairly easy to make major with the 230 gr bullets with the 4" barrel. I've used lead and jacketed bullets with a couple of different powders.

HOWEVER, I have had a heckofa time trying to get a 200gr bullet to major velocities out of that same 4" barrel. I've tested loads with three different bullet types with powder levels at maximum and above. (I carefully watch for pressure signs and I work slowly)

With the 230 gr bullets I just need a tenth or two more than what is normal for a 5" barrel. I have found that it has been difficult to get major velocity from 200gr. bullets in my 4" barrel, even with maximum loads.

I could use some helpful advice as well. (I'm still new to this as well)

traxman

traxman:

For IDPA you can use a 5" to develop your load, then use the 4" in competition if you like.

I ran across this issue while trying to make pf for a Kimber Ultra (3") in IDPA. I was having a devil of a time trying to make pf with out a KB. On another board someone told me if my ammo made it from a 5" 1911, then that same ammo (even if slower) was OK in the 3".

Here's a cut from the (ever changing) IDPA rule book, page 28. Does anyone know if USPSA is similar?

Chronograph three (3) rounds at a distance of ten (10) feet using a

gun of MAXIMUM barrel length for the DIVISION of the same

gun type. If two (2) of the three (3) rounds exceed the power floor,

the competitor is in compliance. Prior to each shot, the muzzle of

the gun should be elevated to move the powder charge to the rear

of the case, thus giving the competitor every chance to achieve

maximum velocity.