jakl15 Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 I've searched and read and researched and stressed, and it has brought me to this question between these two presses. I already have a Square Deal B which is set up for EVERY pistol caliber I own (357/38, 9, 40, 45, 10, 44) minus a toolhead I need for the 44. I get good results from it and really have no reason to reload any of that on the next press I get unless its serious bulk and I want to use case/bullet feeders, but in all honesty I can get 50 rounds out of my SDB in 15-20 min including getting everything out, loading primer tube, etc. so I'm happy with that. I currently have a Lyman Spar-T turret press for my rifle loading. It is slow and painful, especially with 223. I am looking for a press to do bulk loading of 223 and 308 primarily, with some 30-30 and 30-06 on the side occasionally. My concern with the 650 is the toolhead setup. It seems that ideally I would full length size (being used in a gas gun), remove, de-lube, trim and then run through the reload. Problem being I'd have to remove the first die from the toolhead since I wouldn't be lubing them again (or at the very least back the die out so it wouldn't size). On the Hornady it seems I could have all the dies in place, remove the die for the FL Sizing, and replace it with a universal de-capper to make sure no media got into the flash hole. For the XL650 it kinda seems like the only option would be to either change out that die every time or have 2 toolheads per caliber for necked brass in order to run this setup. Is there something I am missing with all of this? Seems to be an unnecessary expense on the side of Dillon, but I'm trying to prevent any surprises. Caveat is that later down the road I may stray away from the SDB if space dictates that I need to downsize and stick to one press, in which case I'd load pistol on the 650 or LnL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowrider Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 650 is the way to go. Did the LNL thing and sold it. .223 and .308 load prep is a pain, there's no other way to describe it. I run two toolheads on my 650, one for prep and one for loading. With the Dillon trimmer I can size and trim 1000 cases faster than I can lube them. Seriously... You can run just about as fast as the case feeder will drop them. That alone is worth the 650 right there. The only way to improve the process is a 1050 with it's built-in swager and downstroke priming. But you probably don't want to be changing calibers often on a 1050. It expensive and more time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakl15 Posted December 1, 2014 Author Share Posted December 1, 2014 Thanks! I agree that prep is a pain. Not sure I want to drop the coin on one of the Dillon trimmers. Was looking at the WFT on a drill post-sizing and then de-lube. The Dillon trimmer would be faster but that is another level of expense right now. Might look into that in the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtp Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 (edited) Ask the question off of BE, and you'll get a slightly different Dillon vs Hornady vote, but yeah, you'd run two toolheads on the Dillon, and yes, you can very quickly and easily re-configure or remove/replace dies in the LnL AP. The Dillon trimmer will work on either the Dillon presses or the LnL AP, so don't let that part sway you. I've run a WFT, and the best way, IMO, is to find a drill with locking trigger (amazing how hard it is to find them nowadays!), or better yet, a lathe type setup, horizontally (people sometimes run them in drill presses, but for me, it's just the wrong orientation/slower), and clamp the drill to your workbench. The Dillon trimmer seems to be pretty nice, especially for those that don't mind the time commitment/mess/time of wet trimming, as the stainless pins will help to remove any burrs. I have plans to get into more LD shooting, so while I'd love the Dillon trimmer for my 5.56 match ammo out to ~200 yards or so, I'm likely going to retire the WFT and go Giraud...if you do pick up a WFT, make sure you get the newer model, which will let you change 'inserts' for different calibers..it is very nice for the $. RE: presses. Yes, the LnL is cheaper, moreso after adding a few calibers. A few have reported slightly more consistent OAL and/or runout loading on the LnL. Some guys had a LnL and then went Dillon, some have also gone the other way. One thing I do like on the LnL APs is Hornady does make continuous improvements over time - the case feeder just had a fairly significant change, and the priming system has seen several over the years, etc. As a LnL AP owner, I love my press, with case feeder. It's biggest 'quirks' I can think of at all are seriously cleaning the heck out of a new PM on purchase (then no worries about it ever again), light smoothing of the primer shuttle and setting up the primer shuttle/slide properly (then forget about it), and initial case feeder setup. I'd probably give a slight nod to the Dillon case feeder, with more caliber specific parts to it, versus my making a pair of funnel inserts (simple, easy) on the LnL feeder to keep .223 and 9mm feeding happily and consistently. Meanwhile, I much prefer the LnL PM with or without micrometer over the Dillons, and I've seen a few people running Hornady PMs on their Dillons, so it's not just me. If I had come across a Dillon 650 when I got my LnL AP, I would have gladly picked it up, was just a matter of which one came up first. Realistically, I'd see if you have a local friend that's reloading and can be a mentor, and buy whatever he's got, assuming it's a 650 or LnL AP. They each have some minor quirks, but more or less are 'work it out once, then go load ammo!' and will both product decent ammo. Short of loading 10+ calibers, I personally don't think it's worth worrying too much over the price difference, as a few years from now, either press will still be loading quality ammo, and the difference in $ will be long ago forgotten.. Edited December 1, 2014 by rtp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWP Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Why don't you size and decap on your turret press, then remove the lube and move to a 650 or LnL for another run at the decap, prime, powder, seat and crimp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakl15 Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 Why don't you size and decap on your turret press, then remove the lube and move to a 650 or LnL for another run at the decap, prime, powder, seat and crimp? The purpose of replacing the turret press is that it belongs to my father-in-law. He gave me the Square Deal B but the turret was borrowed. So unless I spring for a single stage (which would probably be cheaper than an extra toolhead for every rifle caliber actually) then its just the progressive that will be sizing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewbeck Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Bit needing to change a tool head and being able to jus run one die or all dies on the LNL is a benefit to me. Once the LNL is setup and you learn the couple potential quirks and easy adjustment it runs forever for me without adjustments. The LNL base system is also cheaper and can be expanded and interchanged with some Dillon parts easily. If you want to run more precise powder drops just pop it out and fill from the top on the downstroke. If you want different oals keep a single die setup for that. I think they are both fantastic machines but the LNL is quicker and more flexible for die changes based on specific caliber or precision requirements Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBolt Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 650 and buy an extra tool head. In the extra tool head set up the sizing die only. When your brass is all prepped pull two pins change heads and crank out the rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakl15 Posted December 5, 2014 Author Share Posted December 5, 2014 650 and buy an extra tool head. In the extra tool head set up the sizing die only. When your brass is all prepped pull two pins change heads and crank out the rounds. Thats where one of my hang-ups comes in. The logic behind buying a $28 toolhead for 1 die for the 650 vs a $4.50 die bushing for the Hornady just doesn't add up.Yes I know its as simple as having an extra toolhead, but that just seems excessive for a single die Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
safeactionjackson Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 If you will be doing a high volume of military brass I'd probably go with the s1050 instead, if not a spare tool head that could host both sizing dies (223/308) and also future proof the addition of a Dillon trimmer seems like a small price to pay. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakl15 Posted December 5, 2014 Author Share Posted December 5, 2014 Haha yea not sure a 1050 is in the cards if a $24 difference between the lnl and 650 is a factor. I have no use for a 1050. I don't reload THAT much, and as I said earlier in the thread I have multiple calipers in both large and small primer I plan to load. 1050 is way less than ideal for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakl15 Posted December 5, 2014 Author Share Posted December 5, 2014 (edited) Double post Edited December 5, 2014 by jakl15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauntedfuture Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Do yourself a favor and buy a 650. I used to have a LNL. The powder system is what did that press in. The powder bar would stick in the up position and I got a few rounds loaded without powder in a batch. I never had this with a Dillon powder system as there is that powder link arm thing. Grated I did not have a powder lock out die for the hornady.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtp Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 Daunted - when specifically did you have a LnL? It's easy enough to rig a 'return spring' if you want to, but I'd take the Hornady PM over a Dillon, and know several who have replaced the Dillon PM with a Hornady... I have also somewhat recently seen some old pics of older LnLs, including the case activated powder drop and PM assembly - things have changed, they do a fair job of rolling in continuous improvements.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billm67 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I went the other way. I bought a LNL AP and returned it after a few days. Bought a Dillon and never looked back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmo412 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) I stared out loading with a LNL in 2010. I have never owned a Dillon, but I have spent a lot of time helping a friend set up and troubleshoot his S1050. I have nothing bad to say about the Dillon, but my Hornady has been nothing short of fantastic. I can load upwards of 900 rounds of 9 major per hour with 9.4gr of HS6 and 115 JHPs at 1.165 without spilling a single grain of powder. The powder measure is very accurate and simple to setup. I have yet to find a powder that it would not throw within .1 grains every time and I have tried upwards of 15 powders. Mine did come with a return spring, and I have never had the measure stick in the raised position. I feed cases by hand and use a Mr. Bulletfeeder hung from a custom bracket on some overhead cabinets. While I wouldn't mind having a 1050 someday, I don't see any reason to go with a 650 over the LNL. I am sure you would be happy with either press Edited December 17, 2014 by Desmo412 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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