njl Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I was loading a small test batch of Bayou 200gr RNFP .45acp with 3.95gr Clays and had one that just sort of fell into the belled case all the way to the crimp groove. Normally, they only "drop" in to just about the beginning of the lube groove. I removed the bullet and on detailed examination, found it's missing material below the lube groove. It's about 4gr light, and at its base, is only .441". Up at the driving band, it's .452". I don't do any casting, so I don't know how this sort of thing might have happened. All I know is, whatever went wrong with this one, it seems to have happened before the coating process, because the coating is intact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I'm glad to hear your loading process caught the mistake without anyone getting hurt. Good job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I'm glad to hear your loading process caught the mistake without anyone getting hurt. Good job! Sure, good he caught it, but "without anyone getting hurt"? How are you imagining someone could get hurt by what he described? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I'm not imagining anything..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cslafrain Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 This is most likely what is referred to as a short shot where there is not enough lead poured in the mold. Without a sufficient sprue not enough head pressure is created in the cavity which can create an insufficient fill.A misaligned sprue plate can create the same issue. This issue can be intermittent in the process and extremely hard to detect if the fill near complete. It's just one of those issues that happens in casting. We usually add 1% additional product to each box to supplement if these issues occur. I am pretty sure Donnie does the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njl Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 What's likely to happen if one of these got by (say someone using a bullet feeder and not paying real close attention)? Would gas getting up around the sides of the bullet base cause problems (leading if this weren't a Hi-Tek coated bullet)? The base being out of round, seems like at the very least, wouldn't be good for accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Still waiting for RangerTrace to explain... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Still waiting for RangerTrace to explain... He is obviously paying attention to his reloading to catch something like that. If he continues to practice that sort of safety, he is less likely to blow up a gun and potentially hurt himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 RangerTrace, do you, or do you not, think a casting defect as described is dangerous or not? If you are going to assert it is dangerous, please describe how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Mark, I'm not sure if that particular defect is dangerous or not. I don't have any experience with cast bullets. What I do know, is that a reloader should have a system in place that helps them catch problems with their components, whether it's a defective cast bullet, a primer missing an anvil or a cracked case. My point was, and I stated, "your reloading process caught the mistake". Thats exactly what I meant and I was trying to compliment the poster for his good work. Trace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snakeye Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Holy cow tough crowd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorfish Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) RangerTrace, do you, or do you not, think a casting defect as described is dangerous or not? If you are going to assert it is dangerous, please describe how. LOL... Who let the attorneys in here. RangerTrace was simply complementing the OP's loading practices. Doesn't seem too dangerous to me... 4 grains out of the base of a bullet in a caliber that's relatively low pressure but I'm not "asserting" anything, just my opinion. Also, MarkCO, it seems that YOU have labeled this a "casting defect". What makes you jump to this conclusion? Have you personally interrogated Donnie? Removing 4 grains from the base of 1 in 3000 .45 bullets may be technology proprietary to Bayou Bullets. If you are going to assert that this is a "casting defect" do you or do you not jump to the conclusion that this "casting defect" is dangerous or safe, please describe how. (The more important issue is, did the original poster clean his brass with an acidic solution ) Edited November 17, 2014 by razorfish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 RangerTrace appeared to imply that there may be a safety issue with the bullet the OP found. When someone infers such, they should be willing to state the reasons. It now appears that RangerTrace has either backpeddled or never intended to infer a safety issue with the Bayou product. My interest was merely in having him define one way or the other. He finally did that. It was entirely possible that he used inappropriate words, had an actual experience or data that suggested a safety issue. If you think asking for clarification or explanation is wrong, well fine, but others might want to have more than a loose indication of a safety problem. I know I did. Furthermore, I did not label it anything. Read the words, they do have meaning. I used the phrase "as described" which is devoid of assertion. The OP has the word "defective" in the thread title as well. If you are picking a fight just to pick a fight, well fine. My intent was only to have RangerTrace back up his assertion or admit that he had no basis for raising a safety related question about Bayou's product. My assumption is only that forums are largely intended to share information and wisdom from a wider array of knowledge and experience that just person to person contacts. However, forums have become a conduit for assertions, rumors and other things which lack foundation in fact. Now, off to get deposed by an actual attorney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterthefish Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 If the base was undersize enough to allow the bullet to seat well under the intended OAL for the load, it would be (in my setup) aligned by the seating die and then crimped in place. This alone could cause a high pressure issue. With reduced neck tension due to the undersized base, it could be further subjected to setback. With moderate .45 loads, perhaps not an issue. With a hot .40 S&W load, it certainly could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorfish Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 ... Furthermore, I did not label it anything. Read the words, they do have meaning. I used the phrase "as described" which is devoid of assertion. The OP has the word "defective" in the thread title as well. If you are picking a fight just to pick a fight, well fine. My intent was only to have RangerTrace back up his assertion or admit that he had no basis for raising a safety related question about Bayou's product. Nah... just having a little fun. I've seen some of your previous posts and you are in fact the "real deal"... a metallurgy/ballistics expert engineer of some sort . In fact, I immediately discontinued my practice of using Vinegar to clean my brass after reading some of your posts. Thanks for that. I was hoping you would point to the original posters claim that he had found a "defective" bullet. At this point I would point out that if we had lined up five lawyers single file and fired the prescribed round with the described "defective" bullet into the first lawyer that a jury would probably agree the bullet was in fact quite effective. Furthermore we would find out exactly how effective this bullet would be. My guess would be 3.7 lawyers effective. Going from an end users description of a defective bullet to a description of a "defective casting" without an expert like yourself thoroughly examining the bullet in question would be an error. Of course you included some language in your post to hold yourself harmless... that's why you make the "big bucks". My point is that perhaps you've spent just a little too much time in the courtroom and that RangerTrace's intent was probably to complement the OP's loading practices. I'm sure you would agree that words matter. In this case, RangerTrace's words of encouragement are more important than any errant reference to safety (in my opinion). An attack on Bayou Bullets on this forum would be suicide as we are the primary users of his outstanding products. Besides if we all thoroughly inspected our products and followed all of the industry/manufacturer safety guidelines your income would certainly take a hit. (On second thought there's plenty of us stupid people out there to keep you funded for some time.) Strangely enough, I've got work on some interrogatories now... I'm hoping my attorney doesn't make me hire any experts in this particular case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Points taken. RangerTrace, I apologize for being a bit harsh in my response to your post. I hope no feelings were hurt in the making of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicVerAZ Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Holy cow tough crowd I was thinking the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njl Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 Maybe just for the sake of furthering science, I'll load this "short shot" bullet as a dummy round and see if I'm easily able to shorten the OAL by hand or by cycling the round a few times into a G21 chamber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njl Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 ok...so it loaded just slightly crooked, and though I couldn't shorten it with finger pressure, and chambering it 5 times in a G21 made no difference, 1 hit in my impact bullet puller disassembled it with enough force to bounce the bullet off the bottom and back into the case mouth hard enough to gouge it in two places. I'm going to guess that it would have fired safely, but that velocity and accuracy might have suffered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njl Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 Here's what they normally look like when placed in station 3: Here's the bad one (before using the seating die): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Points taken. RangerTrace, I apologize for being a bit harsh in my response to your post. I hope no feelings were hurt in the making of this thread. Admittedly I was taken back by it at first, only because I've never noticed anything remotely gruff from you. But I understand what you do for a living and how you would expect more information than I included. I've been extremely busy with cases, a move and a 15 month old, so I'm "in and out" of here quickly and frequently, which doesn't allow for long, details posts. Either way, we are good to go and I appreciate your apology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now