Superstition Mountain Mystery 3-Gun 2015

[BigLucky]

Just to be clear before I spend money on a new gun for this. Heavy Optics requires a .45 right??

[P.E. Kelley]

Heavy Metal Scope Division

5.5.1 Firearms must be of a factory configuration. Prototype firearms are specifically prohibited. Internal modifications are permitted providing

they do not alter the external appearance of the firearm.

5.5.2 Handgun

5.5.2.1 Handgun holsters must be a practical/tactical carry style and must safely retain the handgun during vigorous movement.

Semiautomatic pistol holsters must completely cover the trigger, and must cover the slide up to ½” below the ejection port.

Revolver holsters must completely cover the trigger and the cylinder. The belt upon which the handgun holster is attached must be

worn at waist level. Shoulder holsters, cross draw holsters and “race” holsters are prohibited.

5.5.2.2 Electronic sights, optical sights, extended sights, compensators, muzzle brakes or barrel porting are prohibited.

5.5.2.3 Magazines may be loaded with not more than ten (10) rounds at the start signal.

5.5.2.4 Minimum caliber is .44”.

5.5.2.5 Minimum power factor (bullet weight x velocity/1000) is 165.

[P.E. Kelley]

All rules online.

[StealthyBlagga]

Just to be clear before I spend money on a new gun for this. Heavy Optics requires a .45 right??

Basically correct. Any caliber in the .44-.50 range that is loaded to Major PF will do, but .45ACP is pretty much the universal choice. However, it does NOT have to be a single-stack 1911... any pistol brand is OK so long as you only start the stage will 10 rounds in each magazine.

As an aside, when Pat pasted the applicable section of the rules into his post, he lost some of the formatting that showed changes over previous years in red text. These changes do not affect the answer to the question, however. Here is the new wording:

5.5 Heavy Metal Scope Division

5.5.1 Firearms must be of a factory configuration. Prototype firearms are specifically prohibited. Internal modifications are permitted providing they do not alter the external appearance of the firearm.

5.5.2 Handgun

5.5.2.1 Handgun holsters must be a practical/tactical carry style and must safely retain the handgun during vigorous movement. Semiautomatic pistol holsters must completely cover the trigger, and must cover the slide up to ½” below the ejection port. Revolver holsters must completely cover the trigger and the cylinder. The belt upon which the handgun holster is attached must be worn at waist level. Shoulder holsters, cross draw holsters and “race” holsters are prohibited.

5.5.2.2 Electronic sights, optical sights, extended sights, compensators, muzzle brakes or barrel porting are prohibited.

5.5.2.3 Magazines may be loaded with not more than ten (10) rounds at the start signal.

5.5.2.4 Minimum caliber is .44”.

5.5.2.5 Minimum power factor (bullet weight x velocity/1000) is 165.

[BigLucky]

All rules online.

Thanks Pat. I had saw that, just wanted confirmation before I spend money on a new pistol for this match.

Just to be clear before I spend money on a new gun for this. Heavy Optics requires a .45 right??

Basically correct. Any caliber in the .44-.50 range that is loaded to Major PF will do, but .45ACP is pretty much the universal choice. However, it does NOT have to be a single-stack 1911... any pistol brand is OK so long as you only start the stage will 10 rounds in each magazine.

As an aside, when Pat pasted the applicable section of the rules into his post, he lost some of the formatting that showed changes over previous years in red text. These changes do not affect the answer to the question, however. Here is the new wording:

5.5 Heavy Metal Scope Division

5.5.1 Firearms must be of a factory configuration. Prototype firearms are specifically prohibited. Internal modifications are permitted providing they do not alter the external appearance of the firearm.

5.5.2 Handgun

5.5.2.1 Handgun holsters must be a practical/tactical carry style and must safely retain the handgun during vigorous movement. Semiautomatic pistol holsters must completely cover the trigger, and must cover the slide up to ½” below the ejection port. Revolver holsters must completely cover the trigger and the cylinder. The belt upon which the handgun holster is attached must be worn at waist level. Shoulder holsters, cross draw holsters and “race” holsters are prohibited.

5.5.2.2 Electronic sights, optical sights, extended sights, compensators, muzzle brakes or barrel porting are prohibited.

5.5.2.3 Magazines may be loaded with not more than ten (10) rounds at the start signal.

5.5.2.4 Minimum caliber is .44”.

5.5.2.5 Minimum power factor (bullet weight x velocity/1000) is 165.

Thanks. And mag capacity doesn't matter, just 10 rounds loaded correct.

And I am sure it is in there, but I am having a helluva time finding it.. Is it just 1 round per paper with the .45?

Looking forward to this match. First time I have shot Heavy in a while and first time I have shot a .45 in competition in over 10 years.

Edited December 11, 2014 by BigLucky

[StealthyBlagga]

Thanks. And mag capacity doesn't matter, just 10 rounds loaded correct.

And I am sure it is in there, but I am having a helluva time finding it.. Is it just 1 round per paper with the .45?

Looking forward to this match. First time I have shot Heavy in a while and first time I have shot a .45 in competition in over 10 years.

Correct, CAPACITY is unrestricted - just make sure no magazine contains more than 10 rounds at the beep.

Required hits on paper are the same for all divisions: 1 A/B or 2 hits anywhere in the scoring area to neutralize. No special rules for .45.

Edited December 12, 2014 by StealthyBlagga

[BigLucky]

Thanks. And mag capacity doesn't matter, just 10 rounds loaded correct.

And I am sure it is in there, but I am having a helluva time finding it.. Is it just 1 round per paper with the .45?

Looking forward to this match. First time I have shot Heavy in a while and first time I have shot a .45 in competition in over 10 years.

Correct, CAPACITY is unrestricted - just make sure no magazine contains more than 10 rounds at the beep.

Required hits on paper are the same for all divisions: 1 A/B or 2 hits anywhere in the scoring area to neutralize. No special rules for .45.

Oh wow, ok.. so that begs the question is it the same for rifle paper and the .308???

[StealthyBlagga]

Thanks. And mag capacity doesn't matter, just 10 rounds loaded correct.

And I am sure it is in there, but I am having a helluva time finding it.. Is it just 1 round per paper with the .45?

Looking forward to this match. First time I have shot Heavy in a while and first time I have shot a .45 in competition in over 10 years.

Correct, CAPACITY is unrestricted - just make sure no magazine contains more than 10 rounds at the beep.

Required hits on paper are the same for all divisions: 1 A/B or 2 hits anywhere in the scoring area to neutralize. No special rules for .45.

Oh wow, ok.. so that begs the question is it the same for rifle paper and the .308???

Yes, scoring and neutralization requirements are exactly the same for all firearms and equipment divisions. The only benefit of shooting the heavy guns is that you qualify for HM divisions and thus compete for score/prize table only against like-equipped competitors. The majority of 3-Gun matches across the nation use a similar scoring regime.

[BigLucky]

Thanks. And mag capacity doesn't matter, just 10 rounds loaded correct.

And I am sure it is in there, but I am having a helluva time finding it.. Is it just 1 round per paper with the .45?

Looking forward to this match. First time I have shot Heavy in a while and first time I have shot a .45 in competition in over 10 years.

Correct, CAPACITY is unrestricted - just make sure no magazine contains more than 10 rounds at the beep.

Required hits on paper are the same for all divisions: 1 A/B or 2 hits anywhere in the scoring area to neutralize. No special rules for .45.

Oh wow, ok.. so that begs the question is it the same for rifle paper and the .308???

Yes, scoring and neutralization requirements are exactly the same for all firearms and equipment divisions. The only benefit of shooting the heavy guns is that you qualify for HM divisions and thus compete for score/prize table only against like-equipped competitors. The majority of 3-Gun matches across the nation use a similar scoring regime.

Thanks for the info. The only matches I had ever shot heavy at before only required 1 round on paper for both pistol (if a .45) and rifle. I have been shooting tac for a while so hadn't really paid attention. I am glad I asked though so I can ship ammo to fit this.

[Paul-the new guy]

I also thought HM was 1 hit anywhere rifle and pistol.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Paul-the new guy

[P.E. Kelley]

I also thought HM was 1 hit anywhere rifle and pistol.

Not at SMM3G since inception nor at a SMM3G since.

[co-exprs]

I think the one shot neutralization is far less common than people think. I've never personally shot a match with this rule set. Most matches are common hit rules for all divisions... as it should be.

[StealthyBlagga]

I would not necessarily be opposed to some variant of 1-hit neutralization for Major power factor, but only if this were rolled into the existing Tactical divisions... get rid of HM entirely and just give the boomers a scoring advantage. Not sure this would get much traction though, and the whole discussion belongs in the 3-Gun Rules forum.

[BigLucky]

I think the one shot neutralization is far less common than people think. I've never personally shot a match with this rule set. Most matches are common hit rules for all divisions... as it should be.

I have shot a few of them, I had never heard of having to shoot twice with a .308.. but that is just me, I wasn't really paying attention except at the matches I was shooting heavy at.. 3GN rules is also one shot neutralization. 2 shots with the .308, and to a lesser extent the .45, makes Heavy the most expensive division to shoot, even more expensive than the extra money you have to spend for the guns to shot open. Hell just shipping ammo for heavy will cost way more if you have to plan for the same round count that the guys shooting lighter guns have to do.... No worries though, your match, your rules (I am a big fan of outlaw).. I will have fun regardless.

Edited December 15, 2014 by BigLucky

[co-exprs]

I think the one shot neutralization is far less common than people think. I've never personally shot a match with this rule set. Most matches are common hit rules for all divisions... as it should be.

I have shot a few of them, I had never heard of having to shoot twice with a .308.. but that is just me, I wasn't really paying attention except at the matches I was shooting heavy at.. 3GN rules is also one shot neutralization. 2 shots with the .308, and to a lesser extent the .45, makes Heavy the most expensive division to shoot, even more expensive than the extra money you have to spend for the guns to shot open. Hell just shipping ammo for heavy will cost way more if you have to plan for the same round count that the guys shooting lighter guns have to do.... No worries though, your match, your rules (I am a big fan of outlaw).. I will have fun regardless.

The division does require commitment from it's participants.

[P.E. Kelley]

I would not necessarily be opposed to some variant of 1-hit neutralization for Major power factor, but only if this were rolled into the existing Tactical divisions... get rid of HM entirely and just give the boomers a scoring advantage. Not sure this would get much traction though, and the whole discussion belongs in the 3-Gun Rules forum.

I have had a couple of phone call discussing that exact idea!

[BigLucky]

I would not necessarily be opposed to some variant of 1-hit neutralization for Major power factor, but only if this were rolled into the existing Tactical divisions... get rid of HM entirely and just give the boomers a scoring advantage. Not sure this would get much traction though, and the whole discussion belongs in the 3-Gun Rules forum.

I like that idea.. That would get away from worrying if there are enough people to have the division or not...

[gunther]

Change that rule to 1 hit neutralised for HM, and I'll shoot HM if I make the wait list! Ha ha

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[gunther]

I really like that idea, 1 hit neutralize for major PF.

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[pmt]

How about 1-hit neutralization for Seniors or Super-Seniors in any division? Juniors should be 2-Alphas, just because they're young & fast and have good eyesight. We choose which division to play in, and how much we want to spend on equipment & ammo - we don't choose to have degrading eyesight.

[StealthyBlagga]

Discussion on one-hit neutralization HERE

[Paul-the new guy]

I thought the 1 hit thing was set up at some matches because it is so much more expensive to shoot .308 -vs- .223 The .45 isn't so bad but it is expensive to shoot a bunch of .308

[RUSSO]

The wait list update for December has been emailed to everyone that is on it.

If for some reason, you did not receive the update, please contact me at: smm3gunstaff@gmail.com

There has not been much movement yet which is expected.

So far a few have dropped from the waitlist process but so far everyone that registered and paid for the match is still is planning on attending.

Like last year, do not expect much movement until after the shot show in late January. That is when the commitments are finalized with the sponsors and we find out which ones are sending their shooters in exchange for all the wonderful gear & Guns that they provide for our prize table.

[aquaticvisions]

Regarding the 1 hit vs. 2 hit neutralization, I feel the requirements should be the same no matter what you shoot. If you don't have the dosh to buy ammo after you just spent $5000 on guns and gear to shoot HM, then 1) your financial planning sucks, and 2) go shoot Tac Ops. I don't believe in making concessions for people who CHOOSE to play in a particular division and then whine about the cost of ammo.

If the concept that the bigger calibers make going fast more difficult and therefore we should even things out by reducing the required number of POOR hits (2 in the C or D zone), then 1) make GOOD hits (1 in the A or B zone), or 2) shoot faster.

As this sport evolves, HM attendance might go the way of the dinosaur. That might just be part of the evolutionary process.

I am obviously not a Democrat.

[P.E. Kelley]

How about just within HM one hit for rifle and pistol?

How about after that....we make HM one SCORED division with two classes of equipment.

HM Optics 20/308 Rifle 10/45 Pistol and 8+1 Auto Shotguns (12 bore)

HM Iron (1x) No mag capacity restriction/308 Rifle 140MM mag length max/45 Pistol 8+1(at start) Pump (12 bore)