cking Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Question I have a weighted tick-toc target. Before activation it is behind a No shoot, Horizontal A vertical no shoot obsures it when it comes to rest. It appears multiple times between the no shoots Since it comes to rest hidden, but appears multiple times do you get a miss penalty or not. My reading is that because it comes to rest hidden, no penalty incurred. The other side says because it appeared multiple times penalty incurred/ Yes we have both read 9.9.1 9.9.1.1 and 9.9.1.2 Which is it????? I've a bet on this one let me know //ck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 I'm no rules meister, but I think multiple exposures is the key and misses will count. Any particular reason for the NS when it comes to rest? Just curious. Will wait for someone who knows what they're talking about to chime in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 this should sum it up for you: multiple apperances is no longer a non-disappearing target. 9.9 Scoring of Moving Targets Moving targets will be scored in accordance with the following: 9.9.1 Moving targets which present at least a portion of the highest scoring area when at rest, or which continuously appear and disappear, will always incur failure to shoot at and/or miss penalties (exception see Rule 9.2.4.5). 9.9.2 Moving targets, which do not comply with the above criteria, will not incur failure to shoot at or miss penalties except where Rule 9.9.3 applies. 9.9.3 Moving targets will always incur failure to shoot at and miss penalties if a competitor fails to activate the mechanism, which initiates the target movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RKooi Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 The only targets that appear and disappear continuously are those that are driven by some type of motor. If it is not motorized then you need some A zone showing when it is at rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Crapola! Just when I thought I was getting a handle on some of these rules, they get changed. Looks like I've got some reading to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 The way that I've seen "at rest" determined is if, at the end of the stage, the target is still appearing/disappearing/moving, then it ain't at rest and you get whatever penalties you've earned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 The way that I've seen "at rest" determined is if, at the end of the stage, the target is still appearing/disappearing/moving, then it ain't at rest and you get whatever penalties you've earned. Which sets up a problem --- in that slower shooters have a different problem to solve than faster shooters..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 The way that I've seen "at rest" determined is if, at the end of the stage, the target is still appearing/disappearing/moving, then it ain't at rest and you get whatever penalties you've earned. Which sets up a problem --- in that slower shooters have a different problem to solve than faster shooters..... Agreed... though the scores won't show a "problem." I was just relaying 411. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cking Posted January 19, 2005 Author Share Posted January 19, 2005 Lynn jones said 9.9.1 Moving targets which present at least a portion of the highest scoring area when at rest, or which continuously appear and disappear, will always incur failure to shoot at and/or miss penalties (exception see Rule 9.2.4.5). So a gravity driven tic-toc that is not continuously appearing and disappearing, and comes to a stop hidden, is a disappearing targets and has no miss penaltys. See the problem here is continously versus multiple appearences Rkooi said The only targets that appear and disappear continuously are those that are driven by some type of motor. If it is not motorized then you need some A zone showing when it is at rest. This is what I remembere being said in the IPSC RO section? Anybody else remember this, I got a free match bet on it!!!!!!!! //ck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 my reading would be rkooi's. Only the ones that you can come back to after a *long* time and that still present the same challenge, are continuously disappearing and reappearing. Can't think of anything but the motor-driven ones or the pneumatic turners that would qualify. Poor wording, indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 The way that I've seen "at rest" determined is if, at the end of the stage, the target is still appearing/disappearing/moving, then it ain't at rest and you get whatever penalties you've earned. Then all the shooter has to do is plunk down on their a$$ for ten minutes after they're done shooting and keep waving off the "If you are finished.." until the mover stops. Time stops with last shot, so they don't lose anything but daylight. Since we don't want to get into that, the only reasonable answer is to determine "at-rest" as "after some lengthy period of time has elapsed" and not "when shooter is finished" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 The way that I've seen "at rest" determined is if, at the end of the stage, the target is still appearing/disappearing/moving, then it ain't at rest and you get whatever penalties you've earned. Which sets up a problem --- in that slower shooters have a different problem to solve than faster shooters..... Agreed... though the scores won't show a "problem." I was just relaying 411. Sure they could ---- assuming a fast shooter and a slow shooter both get misses.... What's wrong is wrong ---- and building a stage within the rules isn't that hard.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactiger Posted January 19, 2005 Share Posted January 19, 2005 Lyn cited the correct rules. The target in question here will not incur miss penalties. However, a better definition of "continuous" needs to be published, IMO. Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cking Posted January 22, 2005 Author Share Posted January 22, 2005 We sent the question to John Amidon, The answer, because it does stop, and no A is showing when it has stopped, you do not get a miss penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 All targets will stop eventually, so if you have a no-shoot in place at the point when the target will eventually stop, do you get miss penalties? I guess my question is, when is it disappearing and when is it not. I know we all know it when we see it, but what's the official definition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactiger Posted January 22, 2005 Share Posted January 22, 2005 Because the rule says "continuous", my read says that the RO would have to physically switch the target mechanism off to score it. That makes all gravity activated targets non-continuous, therefore some portion of either A zone must be visible at rest in order to assess miss penalties. Like I said, I think this one needs some tweaking. Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now