jimbullet Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I have been reloading 40's for quite some time and have encountered a few issues along the way which I have grown to simply accept but now that the pile of un-usable rounds now nearing 400 is taking up space, I am re-visiting my reloading process as well as thinking of pulling them apart to re-use some components. Bear with me as there are two questions/ topics relating to moly coated projectiles which I will from time to time interchange by calling them lead. Reloading lead projectiles I use a Dillon SDB, Brass that I use normally I take the spent primer out and keep them for future reloading. I have at random placed these empty brass through the case gauge to minimize having a loaded ammo that does not fit my pistol's barrel. I noticed often that while the empty resized brass fits the case gauge, once loaded, there is on occasion when I re-gauge the loaded ammo, it no longer fits the gauge with the rim just not seating flush in the gauge. Not sure why. I use winchester brass, 180 gr lead projectiles, OAL 1.160, projectile diameter is 0.401. crimped 0.421. Why this is happening, is a mystery to me and I would appreciate any thoughts and better still, a solution how to totally avoid this. bullet pulling Since I now have several hundred rounds which could not fit my pistol, and I have randomly tried, as if trying my luck, and true enough, the pistol will not go back in full battery and it is rather difficult to remove. I try to avoid this to reduce the risk of an extractor breakage. I am considering to pull apart the ammo to re use the primer, powder and projectiles. Using a bullet puller (Frankford arsenal - hammer), I have never realized that it was a daunting task. Its hard to get the lead projectiles out. They are really hard. I have pulled FMJ ammo apart with relative ease, two or three hits and they fairly come off. Lead however, at times takes me 10 - 15 times. So my question is what is a better alternative that will not damage the lead projectiles? Grateful for any suggestions/ thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbullet Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 As shown in the picture it protrudes the gage just a tad. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbullet Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 The weird thing is if I place it upside down on the gage, the case fits. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 The cartridges that don't pass the gauge test - do they feed thru your gun? It's possible they just might be fully useable, as is. Even if they're a little "sticky" in your pistol, if only a small percentage of them won't fully feed, I'd use them for practice rather than try to break down 400 of them - then you get the practice, and can re-use the cases. What happens in Your Gun's Chamber? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbullet Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 I tried to feed it and it won't go through as expected. It's out if battery by a tad and it's hard as to get it out. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Try shorter OAL....Your chamber leade may be too short for that bullet style. One thing you could do is buy a Lee standard sizing die. Pull the Dillon out of your SDB. Take them to the Machinist. Tell him you want the lee to match the Dillon die. Once you do that you will resize the brass all the way and have no bulges that might affect chambering.... DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 The only problem I see with that is if you match the flare/chamfer on the Lee to the Dillon the Lee won't size as far down on the case as it would in stock condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Dillon is flared too much at the bottom.....the lee is not and resizes farther down on the case. You are only having the machinist remove the OD on the body of the die to match the Dillon SDB die. DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 True, missed the SDB part and thought reference was to bottom of die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbullet Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 I haven't changed the OAL and most of the loaded rounds have chambered with this length. It's the odd few that for some reason won't. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougM Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 I had the same thing happen. My problem (not necessarily yours) was insufficient crimping. Somehow, my taper crimp die got backed out about 1/3 of a turn and it screwed up all the rounds from that point forward. All I had to do was re-crimp the rounds and did not have to disassemble any of them. Once I did that, life was good again. Check your crimp on those rounds that won't go fully in to be sure there aren't any sharp edges at the mouth. Since they go into the case gage backwards, I seriously doubt you have a Glock bulge issue. By the way, all of my rounds passed the Dillon case gage but jammed in the barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not4you2know Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) Sounds like a crimp problem to me, but you say it is at .421 which is where it should be. I've found that .420 works a little better with mixed brass due to varying case widths. Also, Winchester once fired is my least favorite case to reload. For some reason my 550b doesn't load it as easy as other cases. This may be also due to the case width. A good way to test is to load one with no powder and no primer adjusting you crimp until it fits your barrel, then check your crimp measurement. After that pull the pullet and make sure there is only a slight impression on the bullet. Anything more than a slight impression is bad. Another thing is, you might be crimping too much and mushrooming the bullet just enough to cause your issue, but again, you say you are .421, which shouldn't be a problem. Edited August 25, 2014 by not4you2know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbullet Posted August 25, 2014 Author Share Posted August 25, 2014 I checked then several times and definitely crimp is at 0.421 to 0.4205. Pulling bullet has also been tough. Some just won't go even with 10 wacks on the puller. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not4you2know Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 I've had my crimp down to .419 without causing issues with the bullet. I would say, just adjust your crimp down to that, and no more and see if your issue is still there. For what it is worth, rounds that fit my case gauge don't always chamber in my barrel. I barrel check all of my rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdude Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 You have to eliminate possible causes by methodical testing. The first thing to test would be the overall length. First, take the barrel out of your gun and use it as your case gauge. Make sure the chamber is clean. Take a round that does not fit all the way into your case gauge, or a round that you know don't fit in the chamber when you've put it in the gun, and see how it fits in the chamber now that the barrel is out. Does it not go all the way in the chamber in the same manner that it does not go into the case gauge? i.e. does it still protrude? If so, seat the bullet a little deeper and try it again. Does it now fit better? If so, seat it deeper until it fits fully in the chamber and your are able to freely rotate it while it is fully seated. If that works, the problem was the overall length. The next thing to try would be the crimp. Do the same thing - adjusting the crimp - until rounds fully seat in the barrel's chamber. Be methodical and you can figure this out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbullet Posted August 25, 2014 Author Share Posted August 25, 2014 One thing to note that the OAL and crimp that I am using on lead projectiles is the same as what I have used on CMJ 180 gr projectiles and the number of rounds that dont go through my gage is tolerable, almost like 1 in every 300 rounds which was attributed to brass I picked up on the range that had a conspicuous bulge on the rear. Given that it worked on CMJ's, I would have imagined that the same specs would have been okay with lead projectiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbullet Posted August 25, 2014 Author Share Posted August 25, 2014 I've decided to measure the case once more after completing every single stage and I have now isolated the problem. The crimping was too tight for some of the brass. Again I have mixed brass both new and old and found that the newer brass is crimping at 0.418 and I had to readjust the settings backing out the crimp to 0.4205 and so far I have loaded 20 rounds which were all dropping well in the gauge with the exception of one, which I found the brass to have a very noticeable bulge at the rear, which looked like fired from a glock. I will try to load more in the coming days to see how this pans out. Thanks to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdude Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) One thing to note that the OAL and crimp that I am using on lead projectiles is the same as what I have used on CMJ 180 gr projectiles and the number of rounds that dont go through my gage is tolerable, almost like 1 in every 300 rounds which was attributed to brass I picked up on the range that had a conspicuous bulge on the rear. Given that it worked on CMJ's, I would have imagined that the same specs would have been okay with lead projectiles. Different bullets might require a different OAL because of differences in the shape and length of the bullet's nose. Every time you switch bullets you have to do the "plunk and rotate" test to find the OAL that will fit in the barrel's chamber. Edited August 25, 2014 by superdude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbullet Posted August 27, 2014 Author Share Posted August 27, 2014 ok, after adjusting crimp, loaded 20 rounds and I get 3 that would not fit the gauge and tried it on my barrel and sure enough, it wont fit. It is again similar to the picture I posted earlier where it would hang just a bit out on the rim of the case. Ah well, ordering a lee factory full crimp die and will see how that goes. Hopefully it works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not4you2know Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) Here is the recommendations from the BBI site. They do not recommend the Lee FCD. I use one for jacketed bullets, but not molys or lead. You could also try some .400 bullets and see how they work for you. That's all I use. The seem to chamber better that .401. https://www.blackbulletsinternational.com/Loading.html Edited August 28, 2014 by not4you2know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbullet Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 (edited) A friend of mine loads the same specs, same projectiles and I have tried some of his load and they work fine. There is also the odd bulge cases that wont cycle through but generally the diameter 401 worked in my STI. So its either something in my set up or I have been unlucky enough. I do wonder why the Lee FCD is not suited for moly/ lead projectiles. I took the plunge, bought the bulge buster. ran a few loaded ammo through and will soon see if they function well on the range over the weekend. I do wonder though how much bulge is too much bulge that it may already be considered unsafe to use. I suppose the last thing I want to happen is have a catastrophic case failure while firing. Edited September 2, 2014 by jimbullet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
not4you2know Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I use the EGW U-die and have never had a bulge issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grouptherapy Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I run my clean emty brass thru the buster. Then load. I FCD with the bottom ring knocked out. Mild crimp never over 1/2 turn in after contact. Usually 3/8. Ck the 400 bullets you have with your barrel in hand. Odds are if they are sized and crimped proper they will headspace ok. Might be worth a try before hammering 400 rounds! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in CT Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 I load with moly coated lead bullets and have s similar problem. If I force them in the case guage it will actually shave a bit of moly/lead off the bullet. It appears that the bullets themselves had a bulge or oblong diameter and they stick out past the rim. Once I 'shave' that part of the bullets they work just fine. Might want to try that. BTW I load with U die and FCD and I still end up wiith this problem. It is the bullet, not the case in my situation. I can get from 1 to 3 per hundred. Normally all of these would have chambered. neat trick, I had my gunsmith take a brand new chamber reamer and run it down the guage and the barrel so now both are the same spec, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spraynpray Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 SAAMI spec for 40 S&W throat diameter is .401" so a .401" bullet barely fits, let alone if it is .4015". The cartridge was designed for jacketed bullets with a diameter of .400" I have started reaming all of my chambers with this reamer: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/771494/ptg-interchangeable-pilot-chamber-finish-reamer-40-s-and-w-cast-bullet-optimized I have done 4 chambers and my chamber checkers and it has eliminated all the problems I have had with my .401" 200gr cast bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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